Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[Minoosh]

BTW see UV Alumni Tina Fey's sheet cake routine last night?

Link?

 

[Stacko]

Link?

 

[Cavemonster]

Goddammit, I hate to do this.

I realized I misread Big Dog's comment I replied to as asserting that the counterprotesters started the violence by attacking the "unite the right" group. That was my mistake, he was talking clearly about blocking the group, and I did a crap job of reading.

My previous objections were based on that misreading.

 

[Oystein]

So when Antifa sees that Black Bloc is marching with them, shouldn't they just go home? No fine person would march with Black Bloc, right?

You are drawing a parallel to non-nazis marching with nazis, right?

The comparison only fits almost.

It's a question of what the rally is originally: If you go to a rally and find out it is organized, invited to and has a motto, symbols, slogans and mostly marchers that can be directly identified as militant, such that the rally actually IS a militants' march, walk away, do not participate (and blame yourself for not checking earlier what you were going to).
If you have a protest organized and attended by a broad spectrum of peaceful groups and local citizenry, and some militants also show up, keep a distance to the militants, but otherwise keep rallying.

It would be defeatist if you allowed militant minority to end the good protest.


(And yes, there would be a gray area. Just do what you can to discourage militants - especially on your own side. And don't mingle.)

 

[Delphic Oracle]

True. There's an overlap. But Antifa isn't the Black Bloc, and the Black Bloc isn't Antifa.

Have you been reading antifa literature?

I've heard this trick 100 times. It's linguistically incorrect attempt to try to polish a turd.

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[Minoosh]

I saw nothing in the description of the meme that identified the hammer-and-sicle side as Antifa?

There was no text linking the two. In context I imagine many people assumed the photos were taken Saturday in Charlottesville, but there was no explicit claim.

My nephew may be just a super-patriot. I'm sure he knows that free speech does not include the right to run over pedestrians with a car.

 

[caveman1917]

6 reasons why Chomsky is wrong about antifa

Noam Chomsky recently made some comments about antifa, and militant anti-fascism in general, which were as ill-timed as they were ill-informed. Here's what we think he's got wrong about the subject.

 

[uke2se]

Have you been reading antifa literature?

I've heard this trick 100 times. It's linguistically incorrect attempt to try to polish a turd.

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No, it's stating reality, and no I haven't. I consider myself anti-Fascist, but I have never participated in Antifa activities. I have friends who have, though.

The Black Bloc consist of Anarchists who want to destroy privately owned property and have an anti-globalist as well as an anti-fascist agenda. We see Black Blocs in demonstrations with that kind of focus. But to assert that they are representative of Antifa is just wrong.

These guys are Antifa.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

You are drawing a parallel to non-nazis marching with nazis, right?

The comparison only fits almost.

It's a question of what the rally is originally: If you go to a rally and find out it is organized, invited to and has a motto, symbols, slogans and mostly marchers that can be directly identified as militant, such that the rally actually IS a militants' march, walk away, do not participate (and blame yourself for not checking earlier what you were going to).If you have a protest organized and attended by a broad spectrum of peaceful groups and local citizenry, and some militants also show up, keep a distance to the militants, but otherwise keep rallying.

It would be defeatist if you allowed militant minority to end the good protest.


(And yes, there would be a gray area. Just do what you can to discourage militants - especially on your own side. And don't mingle.)

This. If you choose to associate yourself with a certain group, don't jump up afterwards and say "I never meant it!" You are supposed to be protected by law from "freedom of association", but that doesn't provide you freedom of judgment by society.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

6 reasons why Chomsky is wrong about antifa

Chomsky formed his views years ago, before I was born. He just says whatever he wants now.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

No, it's stating reality, and no I haven't. I consider myself anti-Fascist, but I have never participated in Antifa activities. I have friends who have, though.

The Black Bloc consist of Anarchists who want to destroy privately owned property and have an anti-globalist as well as an anti-fascist agenda. We see Black Blocs in demonstrations with that kind of focus. But to assert that they are representative of Antifa is just wrong.

These guys are Antifa.

So if an antifa uses black bloc tactics, the disapproval gets credited to "the Black Bloc" who I have yet to ever hear anyone identify themselves as?

While everyone I've ever seen use that tactic has preferred the term anarchist or antifa?

 

[uke2se]

So if an antifa uses black bloc tactics, the disapproval gets credited to "the Black Bloc" who I have yet to ever hear anyone identify themselves as?

While everyone I've ever seen use that tactic has preferred the term anarchist or antifa?

Anarchist is not the same as Antifa either. If Antifa uses Black Bloc tactics, I would condemn those people. Not Antifa, but those people. The Black Bloc hide their faces from authorities in order to avoid prosecution for destroying private property and clashing with police. I have experience being on the receiving end of their shenanigans, standing with other LEAs to protect property. They do not represent Antifa. They are thugs.

 

[Minoosh]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHEigecXUAEykXM.jpg

It is the same picture.

He and my brother were disagreeing about something. Brother went full hand-over-heart during the national anthem. Nephew was out trying to find his liberal sister and direct her to our seats.

If everyone in the family votes, we cancel each other out.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Anarchist is not the same as Antifa either.

Hence my clever use of the word "or."

If Antifa uses Black Bloc tactics, I would condemn those people. Not Antifa, but those people. The Black Bloc hide their faces from authorities in order to avoid prosecution for destroying private property and clashing with police. I have experience being on the receiving end of their shenanigans, standing with other LEAs to protect property. They do not represent Antifa. They are thugs.

Funny how you find nuance where you want and refuse it when you don't.

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[xjx388]

Fail equivalence fails. Come back after the Black Bloc has murdered 6 million Jews.

The equivalence is dependent on how many Jews a group has murdered*? I don't think so. The equivalence is dependent on how "bad" a group is. If Black Bloc is "bad," then the equivalence is valid.

You would agree that if I am attending an anti-illegal immigration rally and the Nazis show up to rally with me, I should just go home, yes? Likewise, when Antifa is counter-protesting, they oughta skedaddle when Black Bloc shows up.



*And let's not forget that that the American wanna-be Nazis are not actually a continuation of the German Nazi Party -as much as they wish it were so.

 

[uke2se]

Hence my clever use of the word "or."



Funny how you find nuance where you want and refuse it when you don't.

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Where do I refuse nuance?

 

[Eddie Dane]

Anyone who calls himself Antifa should renounce violence in a heartbeat if there were no more Fascists tomorrow.

Is that why they rioted at Berkely to stop Milo from speaking? Does their definition of Fascist extend to self-promoters who dress up mainstream rightwing talking points as edgy?

 

[uke2se]

The equivalence is dependent on how many Jews a group has murdered*? I don't think so. The equivalence is dependent on how "bad" a group is. If Black Bloc is "bad," then the equivalence is valid.

Nope. Because it's a question of degree. Black Blocs destroy property. Nazis have murdered, and want to murder people.

You would agree that if I am attending an anti-illegal immigration rally and the Nazis show up to rally with me, I should just go home, yes? Likewise, when Antifa is counter-protesting, they oughta skedaddle when Black Bloc shows up.

No.

*And let's not forget that that the American wanna-be Nazis are not actually a continuation of the German Nazi Party -as much as they wish it were so.

Not directly, but politically. They are Nazis. Don't apologize for them.

 

[uke2se]

Is that why they rioted at Berkely to stop Milo from speaking? Does their definition of Fascist extend to self-promoters who dress up mainstream rightwing talking points as edgy?

That's not Antifa. If you read up, I've already commented on this.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Is anyone else amazed that Richard Spencer went from implicit Nazi to explicit Nazi?

Clearly, the strategy for growth of the movement would have been to maintain plausible deniability and stay away from the Stormfront types? I thought that implicit Nazi in a suit was his schtick