Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[uke2se]

A look at antifa

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/legislation-protects-drivers-injure-protesters/index.html

I saw them in action during the Coulter at Berkeley riots, and can testify this article is accurate.
What seems to be overlooked is that only a small percentage of the Anti Nazi Protestors at Charlottsville were Antifa. Where Trump was obnoxious was suggesting that all the protestors were Anitfa.

Did you link to the right article? Because that article is about states introducing legislation to protect people when they drive over demonstrators.

When many think of Antifa they think Black Bloc. Black Bloc isn't Antifa. They are a bunch of anti-globalization hooligans. They align with general leftist philosophies in some aspects, and with more extreme leftist philosophies in other, but they are all anarchists.

Antifa consists of many different groups from all over the left. There is no central organization. It's almost entirely locals banding together. The only thing all of these people have in common is the belief that Fascists need to be countered before they attach themselves to their host society, and the best, and sometimes only, way of doing so is by direct action.

 

[uke2se]

ANd your proof of that is.....

Eyewitness testimonies posted several times in this thread.

Let's be honest, some of the Antifa crowd were probably itching for a fight with the Nazis.

I don't know, and neither do you.

Let's cut to the chase:you approve the use of political violence.

Against Nazis and Fascists, yes.

And how about the earlier protests like in Berkeley. I agree that Ann Coulter is truly obnoxious, but she posed a physical threat to no one. Was Antifa right in staging a riot to protest her?

That's the Black Bloc, and no, I don't agree with that. They weren't there for direct action against Fascists. They were there to destroy private property to further their "anti-globalist" cause.

 

[dudalb]

Sorry. My browser has problems with the CNN site.it is constantly reloading it and shifts position after reloading.

Here is the correct linkhttp://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html

 

[dudalb]

Eyewitness testimonies posted several times in this thread.



I don't know, and neither do you.



Against Nazis and Fascists, yes.



That's the Black Bloc, and no, I don't agree with that. They weren't there for direct action against Fascists. They were there to destroy private property to further their "anti-globalist" cause.

Nazis and Fascists, as obnoxious as they are, have the right to express their views so long as they do not use violence. (Of course they are very prone to turn to violence). Frankly by fighting them Antifa is playing into their hands.

If a Nazi is standing around with a sign, no matter how disgusting, if that is all he is doing, Antifa has no right to attack him.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's 100% inaccurate. The Black Panthers began in October 1966. The Watts riot in LA was in 1965, which resulted in 34 deaths and $40 million in property damage. The Detroit riot in 1967 claimed 43 lives and more than 2000 buildings destroyed; it was the worst civil insurrection in the USA since the draft riots in New York in 1863. And of course the riots in the immediate aftermath of King's death were quite substantial as well.

That's not actually true. But while MLK and the SPLC mostly operated in southern states, the Black Panther Party was started in California, in 1966 (King was assassinated in 1968). Two very different environments, with two very different focuses.

So there was a 3 year overlap. I give you a pedantic correction. It doesn't change the point.

The Montgomery Bus boycott was in 1955 after Rosa Parks sat in the front of the bus, also in 1955. SCLC was founded in 1957. Woolworth's Lunch Counter sit in: 1960; Freedom Riders: 1960; march on WA: 1963; Civil Rights Act: 1964; Mississippi murdered civil rights workers: 1964; Voting Rights Act: 1965; Edmund Pettus bridge standoff: 1965...

Bottom line, MLK promoted non-violence and the bulk of the black initiated violence occurred after King was murdered.

 

[dudalb]

Eyewitness testimonies posted several times in this thread.



I don't know, and neither do you.



Against Nazis and Fascists, yes.



That's the Black Bloc, and no, I don't agree with that. They weren't there for direct action against Fascists. They were there to destroy private property to further their "anti-globalist" cause.

The Black Block is often part of Antifa,Antifa is a loose collection of groups (see the CNN article).

Painfully clear you have a "No Enemies To The Left" attitude...

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Interesting details, thanks.

there was never a question of course that the counterprotesters had no permit to block the entrances to Emancipation Park, which is what set off the violence.

Never a question? If people come into my community bearing arms, (and my community is a town where most people have firearms) there would be "questions."

You need to question your motives here, TBD. You're defending scum.

 

[uke2se]

Nazis and Fascists, as obnoxious as they are, have the right to express their views so long as they do not use violence. (Of course they are very prone to turn to violence). Frankly by fighting them Antifa is playing into their hands.

If a Nazi is standing around with a sign, no matter how disgusting, if that is all he is doing, Antifa has no right to attack him.

And they rarely do. They might surround him, intimidate him, call him names, but they won't beat him up. Not until he and his friends (because let's face it, Nazis don't stand around alone - they don't have the balls) flip out. Then the fighting starts.

 

[uke2se]

The Black Block is often part of Antifa,Antifa is a loose collection of groups (see the CNN article).

That's exactly what I said. The Black Bloc often show up to protest the same things as Antifa does, but they are not Antifa. Antifa are only anti-Fascist. The Black Block is anti-globalist as well as anti-Fascist. The Venn diagram isn't hard to understand.

Painfully clear you have a "No Enemies To The Left" attitude...

And yet I told you I disagree vehemently with the Black Bloc, going as far as calling them hooligans.

 

[The Big Dog]

Never a question? If people come into my community bearing arms, (and my community is a town where most people have firearms) there would be "questions."

You need to question your motives here, TBD. You're defending scum.

I'm not defending scum, I am defending the scum's right to free speech

 

[Elagabalus]

And they rarely do. They might surround him, intimidate him, call him names, but they won't beat him up. Not until he and his friends (because let's face it, Nazis don't stand around alone - they don't have the balls) flip out. Then the fighting starts.

I'm pretty sure that the WP guys were wearing helmets and carrying shields etc. because last year in Sacramento, CA they got carved up like a xmas turkey by Antifa and other groups. You should check out some of the footage.And yes the WP guys showed themselves to be total chicken *****. I believe at the time I said something like "They shouldn't have done it, but I liked it". I was told by other posters that this would lead to escalation and they were right. I don't think Antifa should encourage any violence.

 

[uke2se]

I'm pretty sure that the WP guys were wearing helmets and carrying shields etc. because last year in Sacramento, CA they got carved up like a xmas turkey by Antifa and other groups. You should check out some of the footage.And yes the WP guys showed themselves to be total chicken *****. I believe at the time I said something like "They shouldn't have done it, but I liked it". I was told by other posters that this would lead to escalation and they were right. I don't think Antifa should encourage any violence.

Anyone who calls himself Antifa should renounce violence in a heartbeat if there were no more Fascists tomorrow.

ETA: Not the Black Bloc, because their bone is with globalization as well.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Did you link to the right article? Because that article is about states introducing legislation to protect people when they drive over demonstrators.

When many think of Antifa they think Black Bloc. Black Bloc isn't Antifa. They are a bunch of anti-globalization hooligans. They align with general leftist philosophies in some aspects, and with more extreme leftist philosophies in other, but they are all anarchists.

Antifa consists of many different groups from all over the left. There is no central organization. It's almost entirely locals banding together. The only thing all of these people have in common is the belief that Fascists need to be countered before they attach themselves to their host society, and the best, and sometimes only, way of doing so is by direct action.

Black bloc is not a group, it's a tactic...which many antifa groups use.

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[uke2se]

Black bloc is not a group, it's a tactic...which many antifa groups use.

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It's as much a group as Antifa.

And the Antifa groups that use the tactic constitute the Black Bloc.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

I'm not defending scum, I am defending the scum's right to free speech

I have always been a strong defender of free speech. Have you ever heard the term "free speech ends at the end of my nose?"

When the President of the United States defends these trash, after a woman dies, I consider that "the end of my nose."

ETA: I don't support violence, that might have sounded inflammatory.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

It's as much a group as Antifa.

And the Antifa groups that use the tactic constitute the Black Bloc.

I'll be clearer.

Antifa is an ideology.

Black bloc is a tactic.

A group can have antifa ideology and use black bloc tactics.

So they aren't mutually exclusive and there is quite an overlap, in fact.

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[xjx388]

That's exactly what I said. The Black Bloc often show up to protest the same things as Antifa does, but they are not Antifa. Antifa are only anti-Fascist. The Black Block is anti-globalist as well as anti-Fascist. The Venn diagram isn't hard to understand.



And yet I told you I disagree vehemently with the Black Bloc, going as far as calling them hooligans.

So when Antifa sees that Black Bloc is marching with them, shouldn't they just go home? No fine person would march with Black Bloc, right?

 

[uke2se]

I'll be clearer.

Antifa is an ideology.

Black bloc is a tactic.

A group can have antifa ideology and use black bloc tactics.

So they aren't mutually exclusive and there is quite an overlap, in fact.

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True. There's an overlap. But Antifa isn't the Black Bloc, and the Black Bloc isn't Antifa.

 

[uke2se]

So when Antifa sees that Black Bloc is marching with them, shouldn't they just go home? No fine person would march with Black Bloc, right?

Fail equivalence fails. Come back after the Black Bloc has murdered 6 million Jews.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

So when Antifa sees that Black Bloc is marching with them, shouldn't they just go home? No fine person would march with Black Bloc, right?

You didn't say "So, would you....." but that was the sum of the question.

It depends on circumstances, like every other "so" question you could possibly ask.

ETA: If I ever saw a swastika waved nearby, I would certainly leave that gathering of any sort, I promise you.