Can Queen Elizabeth retire without abdicating?

[mumblethrax]

The majority of the world's fully democratic countries are monarchies.

Of the 19 fully democratic countries on that list, I count 10 constitutional monarchies, and 13 states that are in Western Europe.

I'm going to suggest that there are some better correlates than constitutional monarchy for success, with more plausible causal mechanisms at work.

But it's 2017! (Iffen you're Justin Trudeau that's a reason)

That is a good reason. Monarchy is some antiquated Game of Thrones nonsense, fundamentally at odds with meritocratic values typically espoused in liberal democracies, even if the constitutional monarchies don't produce worse outcomes than other flavors in the democratic family.

But I have yet to see anyone produce any compelling evidence that ceremonial unelected heads of states actually do any of the things that they're meant to. Instead it's dubious correlations and just-so stories.

 

[Noztradamus]

Which they aren't.

Seriously? What role does Theresa May, Prime Minister to the monarch of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (and Berwick on Tweed)have in New Zealand?

 

[Blue Mountain]

For a start, that Wikipedia page doesn't even mention the word "monarchy".

Of the 19 "Full Democracies" listed on that page, only 7 (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and Spain) are actual monarchies. It's only a majority if you count New Zealand, Canada and Australia as separate monarchies, which they aren't.

I know that here in Canada, Queen Elizabeth is the Queen of Canada; this is in addition to her role as Queen of the United Kingdom. It's an unusual situation where it is a separate monarchy embodied in the same person. I believe that's true of the rest of the Commonwealth.

Canada closely follows the United Kingdom's lead when it comes to succession. When a bill was brought before the Parliament in Westminster to allow succession to be given to the daughter of an heir over a son, Canada and other Commonwealth nations followed suit. I suspect the Canadian Parliament could have not bothered with that, or (perhaps) have even passed a bill making William the King of Canada after Elizabeth. The ensuing diplomatic row would be interesting to watch.

 

[arthwollipot]

The Queen has one function in Australia. One. The Queen appoints or dismisses the Prime Minister. She doesn't choose the Prime Minister - the party does that. But she does appoint the Prime Minister.

Via a proxy. She doesn't even do it in person.

Okay, technically you are correct, and as we all know technically correct is the best kind of correct.

 

[Craig4]

20% of the US population is inbred?

I'm not sure; it seems impolite to ask.

 

[Darat]

In reality, it has nothing to do with Diana. The comments come mostly from people who want her to stop being Queen. To that end they will criticize everything she does, even if they contradict themselves.

You really seem to be forgetting history.

 

[Steve]

You really seem to be forgetting history.

All of it??

 

[ponderingturtle]

I saw the Queen as a kid once when she was a young woman sweeping past along a road in a car going to meet the Lord Mayor. I was with my younger brother at the time, and my mother, and we were all waving Union Jacks. A few years ago I had a shock when I suddenly noticed Charles and Camilla in an open top car driving near to here. I do regret never seeing or meeting Princess Diana in the flesh, but I suppose its a bit too late now.

No get a shovel!

 

[MikeG]

The person can be admired without admiring the monarchy itself.

Correct.

Elizabeth Windsor is all class.

You've met her, obviously, to come to such a judgement.

Interestingly, I've met her too, and didn't reach the same conclusion.

 

[MikeG]

.......Monarchy is some antiquated Game of Thrones nonsense.......

Exactly. Therein lies its merit: it's such a ridiculous idea that no-one takes it seriously, and it thus has no power. The alternative? President Blair, anyone?

 

[mumblethrax]

Exactly. Therein lies its merit: it's such a ridiculous idea that no-one takes it seriously, and it thus has no power.

I don't think it works to skate right past "Our head of state is totally illegitimate!" to "And that's great, because nobody will let them do anything!"

You'd be better off making a head of cabbage your head of state.

 

[angrysoba]

I'm curious as to what she could have done differently. She allowed Diana's body to be flown home on the Queen's flight. She contacted Diana's family first to ask them if they preferred a private funeral (which was certainly Mrs. Shand Kydd's privilege as Diana's mother). She was asked to provide a public formal funeral, and she did. She was asked to give an address, and she did. Otherwise, she chose to keep private at Balmoral for the sake of Diana's sons, which I think any grandmother would do. If not exposing her grandsons to the public immediately after their mother's death is misreading the mood of the nation, I expect any grandmother would still put the grandsons first in that fashion. She's condemned if she doesn't act human, then she's condemned if she acts like a grandmother first.

In the years since, Elizabeth, William, and Harry are the only ones who have consistently remembered Diana publicly. The Queen personally dedicated a NHS wing in Birmingham when it was renamed after Diana. She personally dedicated the Diana Fountain in Kensington Gardens. She added Diana to the Royal Family website, and her Jubilee website (not a distinction she gave to Camilla). She included Diana's jewels in a public exhibit, and her gowns in another. She's endorsed the new White Garden at Kensington Palace & the upcoming statue. Exactly what else is the woman supposed to do to honor Diana?

Some overgrown children were outside Buckingham Palace, bellyaching and clutching teddy bears and demanding the Queen do something to make them feel better. She didn't make them feel better so they were angry with the Queen. Waaaaaaaaaahh!

 

[arthwollipot]

Correct.



You've met her, obviously, to come to such a judgement.

Interestingly, I've met her too, and didn't reach the same conclusion.

You don't think class affects how she behaves?

 

[MikeG]

You don't think class affects how she behaves?

Social class, or personal classiness?

Both affect the way she behaves, of course, but that wasn't anything like what you claimed (and I countered). You said "Elizabeth Windsor is all class". I disagree with your assessment on the basis of the experience I had when I met her.

 

[Darat]

Exactly. Therein lies its merit: it's such a ridiculous idea that no-one takes it seriously, and it thus has no power. The alternative? President Blair, anyone?

We had PM Blair so why not?

And it is sad but she does have real power and uses it.

 

[Darat]

Some overgrown children were outside Buckingham Palace, bellyaching and clutching teddy bears and demanding the Queen do something to make them feel better. She didn't make them feel better so they were angry with the Queen. Waaaaaaaaaahh!

Or her subjects were extremely unhappy with her apparent callousness and wished their Queen to change her ways?

 

[arthwollipot]

Social class, or personal classiness?

Both affect the way she behaves, of course, but that wasn't anything like what you claimed (and I countered). You said "Elizabeth Windsor is all class". I disagree with your assessment on the basis of the experience I had when I met her.

It ruins the joke when you have to explain it.

 

[MikeG]

It ruins the joke when you have to explain it.

It's a crap joke that doesn't appear to be a joke, and even after you've said it's a joke, it isn't clear in what way it might be funny.

 

[arthwollipot]

It's a crap joke...

I accept that.

 

[Loss Leader]

Charles could be appointed Prince Regent which would mean he had the authority to carry out crown responsibilities, the Queen would remain the Queen but would then be in practice retired. I suspect that although Charles would be the likely choice in theory William could be appointed Prince Regent.

I have this sneaking suspicion that the monarchy is going to skip Charles or that he'll abdicate in favor of William. Divorced and remarried to a Catholic? I don't think even the 21st century is ready for that.