Getaway driver arrested for murder.

Vixen said:
OK fair enough, maybe it wasn't realistic to suggest shooting in the peripheral limbs, but I know the IRA aimed for kneecaps perfectly adequately during the 'Troubles', so my suggestion is predicated on real life conflict.

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Ha ha ha ha! Wait, are you serious? You think the IRA shoot or people's knee caps while in a fire fight?

If you want to be really impressed with 'combat' marksmanship I'd suggest reading up on the Katyn massacre; somehow those guys were speed enough to shoot all the Poles in the back of the head. Those NKVD executioners must have been even better shots than the IRA punishment squads!
 
Vixen said:
OK fair enough, maybe it wasn't realistic to suggest shooting in the peripheral limbs, but I know the IRA aimed for kneecaps perfectly adequately during the 'Troubles', so my suggestion is predicated on real life conflict.
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Here you had a perfect opportunity to fully acknowledge one of your many ridiculous assertions and instead you say "maybe" I was wrong "but" here is my excuse that also doesn't hold up. Could you cite any specific instance where an IRA gunman "aimed" for a kneecap in an active defensive or offensive gun battle. The instances I have found were for punishment or sending a message after the fact at nearly point blank range. It was certainly not to disarm.
 
Vixen said:
One can usually tell by their build. (OK, maybe it is not necessarily 'obvious', but in general youths are usually of slighter build due to a growth spurt.)
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Here again you are dodging the obvious point. What difference does it make if if the home invaders are teenagers? They are still a possible threat to your life or your family. This alone is a justifiable reason to shoot.
 
Vixen said:
Jack the Ripper broke into people's homes?

No, he tramped the streets trawling for prostitutes in the East End.

So a complete non sequitur.

Of course the UK has criminals and murderers. It is vanishingly rare for a homeowner to have to shoot dead intruders.
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Even I would not shoot dead intruders (unless they are zombies of course)!!!
Live ones take their chances on survival!!!


Yes, I fear I am taking advantage of British phrasing for my line!!!!! And, yes, I know what you actually meant but I suspect many Americans would think it meant what I pretended it did..........

Also, I pretty much always do that given a decent opening!!!
 
Vixen said:
No, the 'chatting up' was your sexist scenario and you even tried to introduce one of rape.
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Sexist? Would you mind explaining that?

Your view that I am a Bimbo
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That bears no ressemblance to anything I've said or implied and I ask that you apologise for this stupid strawman.

simply because I have reservations about shooting dead on sight a bunch of half-drunk obvious teenagers is quite mistaken.
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Another mischaracterisation. I never said that having reservations was silly or mistaken. I said that in the heat of the moment you are simply not afforded that luxury. Once more I would like you to address what I actually post.
 
Argumemnon said:
Sexist? Would you mind explaining that?



That bears no ressemblance to anything I've said or implied and I ask that you apologise for this stupid strawman.



Another mischaracterisation. I never said that having reservations was silly or mistaken. I said that in the heat of the moment you are simply not afforded that luxury. Once more I would like you to address what I actually post.
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I think that "chatting up" means "flirting" in some contexts, hence the misunderstanding. You meant "starting a conversation", I presume.
 
Vixen said:
I understand the homeowners extreme fright. And he seems like a really nice respectable guy. However, it doesn't necessarily make it right.
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Right or wrong, given the circumstances it was permissible.

You can't be as sheltered as you appear to want us to believe. You must know that there are people all too nearby, in any sense you care to name, who either want to do you harm or at least wouldn't mind doing you harm. I'm not sure how to calculate the exact number, but the prison population only represents those who have been caught. How many more are out there, and where are they? In the heat of the moment, are you ready to irrevocably bet your childrens' lives that you know the answer?

For myself, I live in a pretty pleasant middle-class neighborhood. Out on the fringes, though, things aren't quite as nice. A mile away is one of the higher-crime areas in the city. Our favorite pizza takeout has been held up twice in a year. The south side of town has a shooting every couple of days (we live in the NW corner). I carry a gun whenever I leave the hood, not because I think I might need it, but because I don't want to need it and not have it. As I wrote in an earlier post, a cop is too heavy to carry.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
 
Vixen said:
Three teens were shot to smithereens and the homeowner has absolute immunity (if the opinion here is taken at face value) because of OK law.
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About all you actually know about this case is that three teens were killed, no charges yet. How does this support your claim that any intruder can be shot with impunity?

There was nothing to stop you explaining ATT that the Make My Day Law does not work like that. The reference to the MMD law was simply what I read in an Oklahoma online newspaper. First I ever heard of it.
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Don't look to anyone else to support your claim with evidence. As far as I can tell you're only supporting your claim with your own bias and the unsupported statements of others on the forum. Is this what passes as skepticism for you?
 
Vixen said:
I note that the 15-year old girl in the car with 21-year old Elizabeth Roderiguez, the self-confessed ring leader, claims she heard twelve shots.

That's a far cry from the two shots, as claimed by Peters, the 23-year old homeowner's soon, the shooter.

So, technically, the 15-year old could also be charged with first degree murder? The sister/girlfriend of one of the dead teens? Re Byron Smith, what he did was pure vindictiveness, but sad that an old vet should have been brought to that level.
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It's an Okie thang.
 
phiwum said:
Is it true that warning shots will lead to arrest more than shooting burglars? There would be something really wrong if that's the case.
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It's a fine line between "warning shot" and "using a firearm to intimidate". One is clearly illegal: prosecutors prefer not to have to make that call. (ref. Normangee Police Chief Charles Herford)
 
Noztradamus said:
It's a fine line between "warning shot" and "using a firearm to intimidate". One is clearly illegal: prosecutors prefer not to have to make that call. (ref. Normangee Police Chief Charles Herford)
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What makes a warning shot problematic is that it's uncontrollable almost by definition. Fire into the ground, it hits a rock and ricochets; fire into the air and, well, it's got to come down somewhere. Where will that be?

This signature is intended to irritate people.
 
Vixen said:
No, the 'chatting up' was your sexist scenario and you even tried to introduce one of rape.

OK fair enough, maybe it wasn't realistic to suggest shooting in the peripheral limbs, but I know the IRA aimed for kneecaps perfectly adequately during the 'Troubles', so my suggestion is predicated on real life conflict.

Your view that I am a Bimbo simply because I have reservations about shooting dead on sight a bunch of half-drunk obvious teenagers is quite mistaken. I understand the homeowners extreme fright. And he seems like a really nice respectable guy. However, it doesn't necessarily make it right.
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When the IRA kneecapped real people. the people holding them kept them in position and the shooting was close up. I loathe Black and Tans and a large number of the IRA. But the B&T started it and went into it stupidly.
 
phiwum said:
Is it true that warning shots will lead to arrest more than shooting burglars? There would be something really wrong if that's the case.
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In a number of states with castle/syg laws, yes - the assumption is if you only shoot to warn you were not really fearful of being killed yourself. An older black woman is still in jail (unless something changed and she is out but ) here in Florida for firing NOT to kill at her husband for trying to attack her and then running. Part of the reason is that warning shots often are not aimed and that means the wrong person may be hit and even killed by a stray bullet.
 
Beady said:
Right or wrong, given the circumstances it was permissible.

You can't be as sheltered as you appear to want us to believe. You must know that there are people all too nearby, in any sense you care to name, who either want to do you harm or at least wouldn't mind doing you harm. I'm not sure how to calculate the exact number, but the prison population only represents those who have been caught. How many more are out there, and where are they? In the heat of the moment, are you ready to irrevocably bet your childrens' lives that you know the answer?

For myself, I live in a pretty pleasant middle-class neighborhood. Out on the fringes, though, things aren't quite as nice. A mile away is one of the higher-crime areas in the city. Our favorite pizza takeout has been held up twice in a year. The south side of town has a shooting every couple of days (we live in the NW corner). I carry a gun whenever I leave the hood, not because I think I might need it, but because I don't want to need it and not have it. As I wrote in an earlier post, a cop is too heavy to carry.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
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One should always be aware of what is going on around you. Fear is your body's warning sign. It has evolved over thousands of years of survival.

Quite often, your body goes into fight or flight mode before it even registers in your consciousness. One should also listen to this.

Having said that, there are some parts of London, which when driving through at night, has me automatically making sure the doors are locked and the windows up. Irrational? Maybe, but I always listen to my fear signals.

Likewise, with intruders, my first instinct would be thinking of escape routes, next, with self-defence measures. One always needs to have a contingency plan.

In my profession, I am used to making risk assessments, and we should all carry this into our personal lives. Live in a nice house in a leafy neighbourhood? Get an alarm that links to the police station. Grilles look ugly, but can make a difference to security.
 
Ranb said:
About all you actually know about this case is that three teens were killed, no charges yet. How does this support your claim that any intruder can be shot with impunity?


Don't look to anyone else to support your claim with evidence. As far as I can tell you're only supporting your claim with your own bias and the unsupported statements of others on the forum. Is this what passes as skepticism for you?
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That's called being sardonic.
 
Vixen said:
So, what do you mean by 'chatting up'?
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I just confirmed phiwum's explanation in the post you quoted. It's getting very tiresome to discuss with you, especially since you seem to prefer to make the discussion about you and perceived attacks rather than address the rest of the points I've made to you. I also notice you didn't apologise for your accusations and mischaracterisations.

Ball's in your camp. Either discuss the issue or don't.
 
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