• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Why Didn't The Allies Back Hitler.

TubbaBlubba said:
Yeah, a fairly small portion of the population, though (a percent at most?). Comparatively speaking, the typical German had it all right under the Nazis.
Click to expand...
If you think being conscripted and sent off to fight the "Jewish Bolsheviks" is "all right" then I may agree.
 
As to the OP title, because Hitler was a slime ridden, odious, pos filth!!!! And that was his best side!!!!!
 
If I were given the option of living under Hitler or Stalin, my enthusiastic answer would be Stalin.

Of course, being Jewish, my options for living under Hitler would be rather limited.
 
Craig B said:
If you think being conscripted and sent off to fight the "Jewish Bolsheviks" is "all right" then I may agree.
Click to expand...

TubbaBlubba is working on the pre-war years, hence only taking domestic policies. So, at least for the thought experiment, bringing the war into it probably doesn't count.
:)

I think the economic madness and the clamp down on possible political opponents (thousands and thousands were stuck in camps...not just the Jews), and the sheer arbritrariness of the Gestapo (Warning From History is currently on over here) really should be enough to show otherwise.
 
Tolls said:
TubbaBlubba is working on the pre-war years, hence only taking domestic policies. So, at least for the thought experiment, bringing the war into it probably doesn't count.
:)

I think the economic madness and the clamp down on possible political opponents (thousands and thousands were stuck in camps...not just the Jews), and the sheer arbritrariness of the Gestapo (Warning From History is currently on over here) really should be enough to show otherwise.
Click to expand...
I agree, and I also observe that the war years were the result of the prewar years, with rearmament and aggression employed as an insane antidote to economic depression - leave aside the complete suppression of democracy, the assault on culture, sexual freedom, and social diversity; burning of books, subjugation of academic freedom and artistic expression. I suppose none of this is of any moment if you are getting a wage at the end of the week; but even here it seems to be agreed that the peacetime standard of living under the Nazis never attained the level of the pre-depression Weimar years.
 
Tolls said:
I think the economic madness and the clamp down on possible political opponents (thousands and thousands were stuck in camps...not just the Jews), and the sheer arbritrariness of the Gestapo (Warning From History is currently on over here) really should be enough to show otherwise.
Click to expand...

But Stalin's equivalent policies were far worse on the domestic front. Unlike Hitler, he wasn't widely popular and relied on sheer terror to a far greater extent. Add up all the people deported and sent to the Gulag (keep in mind, only a fraction, though a substantial one, of Gulag inmates died) in the 1930s and it's something like 5-10% of the Soviet population.
 
Craig B said:
I agree, and I also observe that the war years were the result of the prewar years, with rearmament and aggression employed as an insane antidote to economic depression - leave aside the complete suppression of democracy, the assault on culture, sexual freedom, and social diversity; burning of books, subjugation of academic freedom and artistic expression. I suppose none of this is of any moment if you are getting a wage at the end of the week; but even here it seems to be agreed that the peacetime standard of living under the Nazis never attained the level of the pre-depression Weimar years.
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely. It's a thought experiment on very loose terms.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
But Stalin's equivalent policies were far worse on the domestic front. Unlike Hitler, he wasn't widely popular and relied on sheer terror to a far greater extent. Add up all the people deported and sent to the Gulag (keep in mind, only a fraction, though a substantial one, of Gulag inmates died) in the 1930s and it's something like 5-10% of the Soviet population.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, sorry...actually lost track of the theme...:)
Anyway, I think the Gulag population, at best, took in 2% of the Soviet population up to 1939? That's still some 3 million people, though...and, even including Jews rounded up, is twice the Nazi concentration camps.

Quick Wiki...some 1.6 million at the start of the war, which is 1%.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
He misread Britain's intentions thinking they would not come to France's aid.
Click to expand...

The Kaiser made a very bad appraisal of the British reaction in case he would breach the neutrality of Belgium, which was done on August 4, 1914 when the German army crossed the border and invaded Belgium.

The same day the UK declared war to Germany.
 
Tolls said:
Ah yes, sorry...actually lost track of the theme...:)
Anyway, I think the Gulag population, at best, took in 2% of the Soviet population up to 1939? That's still some 3 million people, though...and, even including Jews rounded up, is twice the Nazi concentration camps.

Quick Wiki...some 1.6 million at the start of the war, which is 1%.
Click to expand...

Not all people stayed there indefinitely, so by the start of the war IIRC north of 6 million has gone through it.
 
Degeneve said:
The Kaiser made a very bad appraisal of the British reaction in case he would breach the neutrality of Belgium, which was done on August 4, 1914 when the German army crossed the border and invaded Belgium.

The same day the UK declared war to Germany.
Click to expand...

Hitler made a similar mistake in 1939,when he felt that Britian and France would yell a lot about his invasion of Poland, but in the end do nothing.
 
Craig B said:
If you think being conscripted and sent off to fight the "Jewish Bolsheviks" is "all right" then I may agree.
Click to expand...

Be fair, that was only the last few years.
If you got in tbe rkght outfit early enough you gotto spend your time in a Yorkshire POW camp and working on a farm.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Be fair, that was only the last few years.
If you got in tbe rkght outfit early enough you gotto spend your time in a Yorkshire POW camp and working on a farm.
Click to expand...
If your starving louse-infested wreckage was captured by the Bolshevik hordes in the Stalingrad "kettle", Yorkshire was not the most likely destination for your rest of war accommodation.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
But yeah, anyway, why didn't the allies back Hitler?
Click to expand...

It's because they thought he was so awesome he wouldn't need any help with Stalin. Pretty sure that was it.

I mean, the Western Allies would have liked to help, no doubt, but were most likely afraid of being shown up by the Nazis, with their sharp Hugo Boss uniforms with skulls on and their awesome racial purity and their most definitely not being gay like all other races and cultures because that's just so weak.

I think that just about covers it.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
The only worthwhile part of that is "That doesn't make any sense".

The allies had generally supported the White Russians against the Reds and were certainly no friends of the Soviet Union. At exactly what point "back then" do you think they should have decided to back Germany against Russia? Can't have been while Germany had a non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union. Hitler was officially Stalin's pal right up until he invaded, by which time Britain had been at war with him for nearly two years precisely because they too had a treaty, with Poland.

The Mongol hordes of five hundred years ago didn't make Russia oriental. Quite the reverse - the Mongols' collapse and the following eastward expansion of the Tsar's domains made the orient Russian. It's a remarkable statistic that, after the defeat of the Mongols, the Tsar's domain increased by an average 50 square miles per day for the next four hundred years.


No. The Kaiser wanted war, thinking he could win. He pushed Austria/Hungary to punish Serbia, knowing it would provoke the Tsar but believing he could crush France in a repeat of 1870 and still take on Russia. He misread Britain's intentions thinking they would not come to France's aid.
Click to expand...

I have always seen the start of WWI as an outbreak of mass stupidity. I do not dispute that Germany was a major player in that mass stupidity, but they do not, IMO deserve sole blame for starting the war, Serbia (assuming that the assassination that set the whole thing in motion was done at the Serbian government's behest), Austria and Russia were also major actors. Germany certainly deserves blame for backing Austria, when they could have advised moderation, and invading a neutral country (Belgium), which was an especially dumb move on their part, as it brought Britain into the war.
 
Last edited:
One can endlessly debate whether Hitler or Stalin was worse. Both were clearly monsters, with the blood of millions on their hands, but I think Hitler gets the nod for sheer bat-crap craziness and his obsession with exterminating the Jews.

That Stalin ended up on the Allied side was mostly Hitler's doing, as he idiotically decided to invade Russia before defeating the Allies. His alliance with Japan also proved disastrous, as their bombing of Pearl Harbor brought USA, with their massive industrial capacity out of reach of Axis bombers, into the war making the war completely unwinnable for the Axis.

That the Soviets ended up on the Allied side was almost entirely due to Hitler's idiocy, making Stalin the enemy of our enemy.
 
CORed said:
One can endlessly debate whether Hitler or Stalin was worse. Both were clearly monsters, with the blood of millions on their hands, but I think Hitler gets the nod for sheer bat-crap craziness and his obsession with exterminating the Jews.

That Stalin ended up on the Allied side was mostly Hitler's doing, as he idiotically decided to invade Russia before defeating the Allies. His alliance with Japan also proved disastrous, as their bombing of Pearl Harbor brought USA, with their massive industrial capacity out of reach of Axis bombers, into the war making the war completely unwinnable for the Axis.

That the Soviets ended up on the Allied side was almost entirely due to Hitler's idiocy, making Stalin the enemy of our enemy.
Click to expand...

Seconded!

Hitler was well aware that Germany could not win a sustained war against England, the USA and the USSR.

But of course, Hitler was stupid and so crazy that he did create a situation where Germany would have to fight a sustained war against England, the USA and the USSR.

It sure is a good thing that Hitler was not nearly the genius that so many of the stupid, idiotic, lying Nazi lovers (like 'truthist') like to believe that he was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom