Mexico's Outrage . . .

[chrispy]

Let's just stipulate that I'm completely wrong about Mexican retail. I'll concede for the sake of argument that Mexican shopping is the equal of US shopping and thus, Mexican nationals have no economic reason to shop here as opposed to home. They don't need our stores.

Now explain why so many are compelled to cross the border on shopping tours, in big vans with multiple family members and to travel many hundreds of miles to do so. They aren't all visiting family or shopping while on business. Something compels them to spend billions of dollars in our economy as opposed to their own.

Well, from what has been told to me (granted this anecdotal) is that the products purchased in the US tend to be America-centric, as in products directly related to US culture. Music, Disney, etc. That said, again, I am isolated from this because EVEN WHERE I AM (hours away from Oaxaca de Juarez, or Oaxaca City) we have access to all necessities and most luxuries, so this argument may be beyond me. I cannot address the border states, but you have repeatedly included all of Mexico in your blanket statements. This includes assertions that you have traveled all over Mexico. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the amount of money spent purchasing US goods in the USA compared to total Mexican purchasing of US goods. I am searching now for numbers...

 

[bruto]

Which I have only restated a few times so I can understand why you may have missed it. I don't believe I've made an error. McAllen, Texas has a better retail environment in terms of price, quality and selection than just about anywhere in Mexico. I stand by that. A few links to some malls in Mexico City and Cancun is not great evidence against it. It's a strawman to say that I've argued that Mexico has no retail or that it doesn't have some of the same stuff as we do. I've only said that the retail environment in Mexico does not compare to that in even small cities like McAllen in terms of -say it with me- price, variety and quality.

OK, sure.

That would all be very well if that's what you said.

 

[Resume]

That would all be very well if that's what you said.

And even that isn't exactly true.

 

[Resume]

This thread brings this song to mind.

James McMurtry - Safeside

 

[xjx388]

That would all be very well if that's what you said.

It's exactly what I said:

. Interesting. I've been all over Mexico but I've never seen a retail environment that is comparable to what we have even here in a small border city like McAllen,

I then clarified what I meant by "retail environment:". Price, variety and quality.

Never said there was no retail environment in Mexico nor did I say that you couldn't find TVs, luxury goods etc in Mexico. You can; Mexico isn't a third-world country -unless you are one of the exploited poor, of course.

 

[Minoosh]

I then clarified what I meant by "retail environment:". Price, variety and quality.

I don't know if this has been a factor in your experience, but quite a few cities have vertical malls with entrances kind of tucked away. If you pass the opening you wouldn't see any of that inside.

 

[The Don]

I don't know if this has been a factor in your experience, but quite a few cities have vertical malls with entrances kind of tucked away. If you pass the opening you wouldn't see any of that inside.

xjx388, based on his/her own experience has apparently decided that the whole of Mexico is an economic backwater. Mere facts aren't going to change that.

 

[xjx388]

xjx388, based on his/her own experience has apparently decided that the whole of Mexico is an economic backwater. Mere facts aren't going to change that.

Depends on how you define "backwater." Mexico is certainly a large, diverse economy with a lot of wealth. It's a huge trade partner with the US. From that perspective it's not a backwater. But when you look at poverty and living conditions for a large percentage of the population along with active economic oppression...

 

[The Don]

Depends on how you define "backwater." Mexico is certainly a large, diverse economy with a lot of wealth. It's a huge trade partner with the US. From that perspective it's not a backwater. But when you look at poverty and living conditions for a large percentage of the population along with active economic oppression...

You've decided that the "retail environment" in a small US border town is far superior to anywhere in Mexico - that's what I was referring to when I used the term "economic backwater" - and you seem unshakeable in that belief regardless of the ample evidence to the contrary.

Regarding the wider picture, levels of inequality in Mexico aren't that different to those in the US and in that regard the US is more like Mexico than it is Canada.

 

[Craig B]

... The profits from a steady flow of drugs into the US. Cut the drug routes into the US and you disempower the cartels massively.

Remind me ... how were the bootlegging gangs of the 1920s finally disempowered?

 

[xjx388]

You've decided that the "retail environment" in a small US border town is far superior to anywhere in Mexico

I never said anything remotely like that. I said that: I've been around a lot of Mexico and of the places I've been, the retail environment in Mexico does not compare to McAllen, TX. Not "far superior," just better on the measures of price, quality and variety. Which is evidenced by the amount of Mexican shoppers my little slice of the border receives. If Mexico was no different, you wouldn't expect so much cross border shopping.

- that's what I was referring to when I used the term "economic backwater" - and you seem unshakeable in that belief regardless of the ample evidence to the contrary.

It's not a belief. It's a direct observation. I accept that some parts of Mexico such as Mexico City have better retail than McAllen, Texas. It stands to reason that a city which is home to so many millionaires and a few billionaires would have much better shopping than a small Texas city. But the rest of the country is not Mexico City.

Regarding the wider picture, levels of inequality in Mexico aren't that different to those in the US and in that regard the US is more like Mexico than it is Canada.

It honestly boggles my mind how anyone can make the claim that Mexico is to the US as the US is to Canada when it comes to inequality. Forget the term "wealth inequality" which is defined by numbers. What I'm getting at is the inequality in the quality of life between those at the top and those at the bottom. The 10-15% of people who live in poverty in the US and Canada have comparable quality of life as compared to the 50% or so who live in poverty in Mexico.

Here's a couple articles that hit upon what I'm trying to get at.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/19/world/la-fg-mexico-rich-poor-20110420

http://www.businessinsider.com/carlos-slim-and-mexicos-wealth-gap-2015-8

I'm not generally a fan of indexes because they are based upon subjective judgements about what's important Having said that, the OECD's Better Life Index is pretty broad measure across a wide spectrum of indicators they feel are reflective of a good quality of life. OECD seems to have wide acceptance as an acceptable authority on these matters so take this for what it's worth. Mexico, as you can see, ranks 2nd to last on their index and the US and Canada are 5th and 9th. This is more of what I'm getting at.

 

[Resume]

It's not a belief. It's a direct observation. I accept that some parts of Mexico such as Mexico City have better retail than McAllen, Texas. It stands to reason that a city which is home to so many millionaires and a few billionaires would have much better shopping than a small Texas city. But the rest of the country is not Mexico City.

It is a belief. It's my direct experience that many places in Mexico compare favorably to some border town. Other than regional cuisine, there is next to nothing that I can get in Chicago that I can't get in DF, or in many of the resort cities. Swarovski, Prada, Samsung, Apple, Mercedes . . .

You just keep doubling down. Maybe McAllen has better shopping than Chicago, too.

 

[xjx388]

It is a belief. It's my direct experience that many places in Mexico compare favorably to some border town. Other than regional cuisine, there is next to nothing that I can get in Chicago that I can't get in DF, or in many of the resort cities. Swarovski, Prada, Samsung, Apple, Mercedes . . .

Yes, in Mexico City and certain resort areas that cater to the rich and the tourist trade, you can indeed get those things. I can get Apple in Monterrey and SLP too. But the retail environment is more than high-end brands. Very few places in Mexico have the prices, quality and variety that McAllen has.

You just keep doubling down. Maybe McAllen has better shopping than Chicago, too.

I would wager that I can find most things they have in Chicago right here in McAllen and that you can't say the same about most places in Mexico. What we lack here are the truly high-end shops like Louis Vuitton, Sak's Fifth Avenue, etc. We have some stores that carry these luxury brands but Chicago beats us hands down when it comes to overall variety. But i can just go to San Antonio or Houston and have Chicago level shopping. I'm not going to cross the border just to get my wife a Louis. I might do it if we were already visiting for business or pleasure.

In any case, if you are right and I'm wrong, then it's a mystery as to why all those people from Monterrey, SLP, Jalisco, etc come to the Texas border just to shop. Why would they do it if they can travel to DF or Cancun in their own country?

ETA: And even though I could buy Apple products in Monterrey or SLP, why would I? It's cheaper at home.

 

[Resume]

In any case, if you are right and I'm wrong, then it's a mystery as to why all those people from Monterrey, SLP, Jalisco, etc come to the Texas border just to shop. Why would they do it if they can travel to DF or Cancun in their own country?

ETA: And even though I could buy Apple products in Monterrey or SLP, why would I? It's cheaper at home.

As I've iterated previously, folks go there out of convenience. You aren't driving to Cancun to shop if you live in Matamoros. I don't see the mystery at all.

This is agreeing to your anecdote.

 

[xjx388]

As I've iterated previously, folks go there out of convenience. You aren't driving to Cancun to shop if you live in Matamoros. I don't see the mystery at all.

This is agreeing to your anecdote.

Why, if Monterrey has comparable shopping to McAllen, do people from Monterrey find it more convenient to cross an international border to shop here?

 

[xjx388]

That's my point. Most of Mexico does not have comparable shopping to what we have in a small border city like McAllen. Those people with the means to do so come here or similar towns in Texas. New Mexico, Arizona and California. They can't find what they want in Mexico so they come to places that are basically built to cater to them in the US.

 

[Resume]

Why, if Monterrey has comparable shopping to McAllen, do people from Monterrey find it more convenient to cross an international border to shop here?

I don't know exactly and I don't know if it's even true; why do Winnetka residents shop the Mag Mile when the same merch is available off Sheridan road. . Monterrey does have some shopping opportunities; they even have a Walmart supercenter! Maybe it's not enough. It could be perceived status, it could be also be value/availability, but to turn your own argument back at you, border towns do not a country make. Nor do the pueblos.

The problem is you made a blanket statement about shopping equivalence that was demonstrably false, and your still trying to defend it.

 

[Resume]

That's my point. Most of Mexico does not have comparable shopping to what we have in a small border city like McAllen. Those people with the means to do so come here or similar towns in Texas. New Mexico, Arizona and California. They can't find what they want in Mexico so they come to places that are basically built to cater to them in the US.

Who are you talking to?

 

[Dr. Keith]

Who are you talking to?

He's almost got himself convinced. Stop interrupting.

 

[Resume]

He's almost got himself convinced. Stop interrupting.

Will it stop, then?