No, the issue is that you're completely unwilling to understand any view that doesn't conform to your own.
Some skeptic you are.
McHrozni
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Merged Terror attack on German Christmas market
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No, the issue is that you're completely unwilling to understand any view that doesn't conform to your own.
Some skeptic you are.
McHrozni
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I understand what you have written well enough. I even paraphased it accurately for you. I even provided a recommendation of a solution. Sort yourself out.
Bigotry is not skepticism. And skeptic is not a label I ever apply to myself.
Just so you guys realize where "don't blame Islam" has brought us.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ty-us-voters-immigration-latest-a7553961.html
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-trumps-refugee-ban-have-public-support/
Trumps' antics have support of a very large part of US electorate. He can channel this support to further agenda more nefarious and less stupid than simply banning some people from entering US for a few months. Division is the name of the game, and the policy of not blaming Islam has brought us to the point where blaming Muslims (not Islam, Muslims) is an effective way to play the game.
This is precisely what I was warning about. I hate it when I'm right.
McHrozni
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ty-us-voters-immigration-latest-a7553961.html
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-trumps-refugee-ban-have-public-support/
Trumps' antics have support of a very large part of US electorate. He can channel this support to further agenda more nefarious and less stupid than simply banning some people from entering US for a few months. Division is the name of the game, and the policy of not blaming Islam has brought us to the point where blaming Muslims (not Islam, Muslims) is an effective way to play the game.
This is precisely what I was warning about. I hate it when I'm right.
McHrozni
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Yet again I remind you that just because you say something doesnt make it true. Esoecially when the evidence is there for all to see.
You ckearly have a blind spot about Muslims despite being quite sensible on a variety of topics. I believe doctors call it Sam Harris Syndrome.
All you need to do now is write The terrorist attack on the mosque was a terrible act of islamophobia motivated by hatred and right wing nonsense such as Ihave been spouting on this very thread. Not even fifty times. Once is fine.
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Utter nonsense. Cause and effect has completely broken down in your reality. A reality where apparently noone blames islam and muslims for anything. A reality only you and the deplorables seem to have any knowledge of.
It does sound weird that you think getting Muslims to come out in opposition to their own religion is more "currently possible" than stopping the very few terrorists among them from committing further crimes.
A lot of Muslims have already denounced terrorism without opposing their own religion. You can now see, can't you, what the expression "Islamophobia" means?
If it turns out that the Quebec murderer was inspired by some perverted understanding of Christianity, then it wouldn't be currently possible to effectively end such terrorism, eh? So what do we do? It's simple. Tell the Pope to stand up and say the only true Christians are these murderers, because the whole religion is total rubbish. That should do the trick.
How many times do I have to say I don't have a problem with most Muslims, but I do have a problem with Islam? It's not the only ideology I have a 'blind spot' for, Communism gets the exact same treatment from me. The only difference is that criticizing Communism is acceptable and everyone recognizes you don't intend harm to people who are Communists and that you don't need to be a Nazi (-sympathizer) to think so. But if you criticize Islam it makes you an Islamophobic scumbag.
Funny, that. With attitudes like these it's no wonder Trump has the support of nearly half the electorate with his antics.
The terrorist attack on the mosque was a terrible act of Islamophobia, motivated by hatred, right wing nonsense and other reasons, such as nonsense you have been spouting on this very thread.
Happy?
McHrozni
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That's not the primary goal. I explained what it was several times by now, do you need a link?
Denouncing terrorists does mean opposing their own religion. That said, I'm fine if they do denounce terrorists without acknowledging it opposes their religion. They just must do it on a much grander scale than what we see for it to have th desired effect.
The problem is that Christian scriptures do not condone such attacks, they explicitly forbid them. The same isn't true for Islam.
Not all religions are identical. A religion founded by hippies is different from a religion founded by a megalomaniac warlord. If that surprises you you should abstain from commenting on the matter until you understood the implications.
Plus, of course, the Pope did condemn the attack immediately - even though there is no evidence it had anything to do with Christianity, Christians or Roman Catholic Church.
http://www.americamagazine.org/poli...-francis-condemns-terror-attack-quebec-mosque
Kind of you know ... what I ask being the norm in other religions?
McHrozni
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No, saying the following is what does that.
To effectively stop further attacks against Muslims you need to either effectively stop Islamist terrorist attacks (not currently possible), or at least make sure Muslim community is seen as truly opposed to their religion, however weird that sounds.
My bold. Because it means that you do have a problem with most Muslims. Problem is, you can get Muslims to denounce terrorism, but you want them to denounce Islam because you think that's currently more possible and effective. That view, which does indeed look a bit irrational, is Islamophobia by any reasonable definition.Denouncing terrorists and denouncing Islam are one and the same. Scrap that out of my argument if it bothers you: they must be truly opposed to terrorists produced by their religion.
It's the same thing, but I'm fine if it's put that way if it makes you feel better.
McHrozni
This actually does not show that you are right in any shape or form. The policy of blaming Muslims is not a new development, it has been around since 9/11. You are taking an observed behaviour (blaming Muslims) and assigning a cause to it (policy of not blaming Islam) without showing any causal link. It is merely an argument from assertion.
"they must be truly opposed to terrorists produced by their religion." But not opposed simply to terrorists in general, even if they deny that such terrorists are produced by their religion? No matter what way round you say it, it's still "weird".
Being opposed to terrorists in general is fine, but what is causing problems is the fact Muslims aren't seen as opposing specifically terrorists produced by their religion. I'm sure this is true for most Muslims, but they really should put some effort to convince more people. Right now "Muslim ban" has 40-50% support in the US, and possibly more than that. If Muslims had made the effort to make a distinction between themselves and terrorists, the support would be significantly lower. See how Pope did it, condemning a hate crime against Muslims even though there is no way to make the connection between them. Doing it immediately, often and irrespective of any connection to you or your religion creates a clear distinction between you and them, ensuring even relatively minor effort (like this condemnation) does the trick.
Right now, it would take a truly massive and sustained effort from Muslims to convince non-deplorables they really do oppose terrorists. Deplorables are already lost for a generation, maybe more. I'm afraid it could even be too late.
McHrozni
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The policy of not blaming Islam you mean? No one blames Muslims and no one speaks of blaming Muslims, least of all me. The policy has been around since forever, and it has done the most damage in the past few years. It behaves as an exponential function, the effects are very mild early on, but it eventually explodes.
Not blaming Islam is an underlying cause, because it allowed Muslims and deniers to pretend Islam is not to blame for Islamic terrorism. The problem is that Islam is the main reason for Islamic terrorism, and the policy of not blaming Islam allowed Muslims to pretend it isn't for so long that enough anger accumulated to lead to massive problems which downright threaten our way of life, our civilization.
I warned of this several times over.
McHrozni
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It's certainly kicked up a notch since 9/11, but I remember when Oklahoma City happened. Half of my classmates were muttering about 'those damn towel-heads.'
The trouble was a little closer to home, as we very quickly found out.
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Well it's certainly progress. A few pages back Islamophobia was a myth. It only took half a dozen North American dead for you to acknowledge it as a thing. Could have been worse I suppose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_1995
There were 8 major terrorists attack in that year prior to Oklahoma city bombing. Of those, 6 were done by "towel heads", one was blamed on Kurds and one was done by a Japanese death cult.
It's hardly surprising that they initially suspected "towel heads". That said, unlike 9/11, this attack drastically reduced the domestic terrorist threat, because people abandoned the movement(s) that led to it en masse.
Kind of you know ... abhorring such behavior and demonstrating that to the best of your ability being the norm outside of Islam?
McHrozni
That is untrue. You have spoken of
make sure Muslim community is seen as truly opposed to their religion, however weird that sounds.
Not simply that Muslims have to be seen to oppose terrorism. They are to be truly opposed to their religion. That is a perfect illustration of Islamophobia.I never said it's a myth, I claimed it's a garbage slur - which is an accurate description for a vast majority of uses of the word.
McHrozni