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Merged Terror attack on German Christmas market

Skeptic Ginger

Nasty Woman
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
96,955
Many dead and injured.

UPDATE: POLICE SUSPECT TERROR, SUGGEST MANY DEAD – Semi plows into Berlin Christmas Market

Several dead and 50 injured as truck ploughs into Christmas market in Berlin
Citing police sources on the ground, German media are reporting that early investigations indicate the incident was likely to be a deliberate attack on tourists and other civilians at the Christmas market.



Recently a 12 yr old tried more than once to plant a nail bomb but was caught and stopped.

A 12 year old German-Iraqi boy suspected of having links to ISIL in Ludwigshafen, Germany, it has been revealed on Friday, attempted to detonate a nail bomb first in a Christmas market and then near to the city’s City Hall.
On Nov. 26, the boy reportedly set down a backpack containing a bomb he made using fireworks and sparklers in the city’s Christmas market.

After the bomb failed to ignite, a passer-by on Dec. 5 noticed the boy hiding a second explosive devise near to the City Hall and informed police.

A bomb-disposal team disposed of the bomb. Police reports describing the incident say the boy’s intended bomb was flammable but not explosive. The bag in which it was found was also filled with nails.

According to German magazine Focus, which published a report on the attempted bombing, the boy had planned to leave for Syria during the summer of 2016 and is believed by investigators to have been “strongly religiously radicalised” and “instigated” by an as of yet “unknown member” of ISIL.

The boy, born in 2004 in Ludwigshafen, is currently being held in a “local youth welfare centre”.
 
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38373867

One person has died and several have been injured as a lorry ploughed into a Christmas market in central Berlin, police say.

Police now say they suspect it was a deliberate attack. Video footage from the scene shows stalls knocked over and people lying injured on the ground.



Still breaking news at this point... so details may vary well change.
 
Please keep to the topic of this thread.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
CNN and BBC report 9 dead, 50 injured, deliberate attack by two perpetrators. One is dead, another in custody.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html

Russian ambassador to Turkey was shot and killed, there was a mass shooting incident near an Islamic center in Zürich and this. Eventful Monday. :(

McHrozni

Considering the complex cocktail of geopolitical interests swirling around Syria, this has seriously ominous consequences and the blame game is going to be quite turbulent.
 
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So the latest (from a friend in Germany, so you can*fairly consider this hearsay) on this situation is that the truck had no lights on when it ran into the crowd, and after the incident*the driver fled, but was captured later. Another deceased individual was found inside the truck at the scene. As far as I know, he has not been officially identified; but my friend has said that some media in Germany*who have been in contact with the*owner of the truck (a delivery company in Poland) have said that the dead individual might be the truck's actual driver and that the truck may have been hijacked and that driver killed soon after arriving this evening in Berlin.

The captured suspect is reportedly of Pakistani descent.
 
So the latest (from a friend in Germany, so you can*fairly consider this hearsay) on this situation is that the truck had no lights on when it ran into the crowd, and after the incident*the driver fled, but was captured later. Another deceased individual was found inside the truck at the scene. As far as I know, he has not been officially identified; but my friend has said that some media in Germany*who have been in contact with the*owner of the truck (a delivery company in Poland) have said that the dead individual might be the truck's actual driver and that the truck may have been hijacked and that driver killed soon after arriving this evening in Berlin.

The captured suspect is reportedly of Pakistani descent.

The latest update by ABC confirms some of that.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/berlin-...to-christmas-market;-at-least-9-dead/1663789/
 
Driver was arrested on the spot, US intelligence says it was a terrorist attack, Donald Trump is already tweeting about ISIS.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/20/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html

I heard it over the radio the driver was a refugee who recently came to Germany from Pakistan. If true Trump is probably right, and we have another it's Islam vs it's something else 'debate' at our hands.

Attacks like these can really put people like AfD in charge. No one will like what happens after that, no one.

McHrozni
 
Considering the complex cocktail of geopolitical interests swirling around Syria, this has seriously ominous consequences and the blame game is going to be quite turbulent.

If Turkish president was a cunning man he could quite easily exploit the situation for his own gain. He could use it as a pretext to arrest even more "Gülenists", purge the state further, apologize for the incident a thousand times and so on. It would please Russia and work could begin in earnest for an actual alliance between the two.

McHrozni
 
Suspected terrorist attack in Berlin

I was surprised there's no thread on this yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38375555

The parallel with the Nice attack are obvious.

12 dead, suspect in custody. Police believe it to be a terrorist attack and while ifaik no organisation has yet to claim responsibility the suspect is believed to be a Pakistani refugee, this is sure to provide a boost to Europe's far right.

I seems inadequate, but my thoughts are with those caught up in the events, particually the injured some of whom are still in critical condition.
 
The weakness of some people who lose their **** over something such as this is just laughable. As cruel and heartless as it might sound people need to accept that people will die to terrorists of every stripe. It's an inevitability: the bomber (or the truck driver in this case) will get through sometimes no matter what you even if you tried to shot and kill every swarthy looking foreigner on sight. You can either accept this inevitability and do you best to reduce the risks involved or give in to fear and terror while making everything far worse for everyone.

Seriously, it's eight people dead. If this is an intentional attack it's hardly even noteworthy unless there has been some serious security oversights. Even completely accidental car accidents have killed more people at once. People ought to start worry when suicide bombing terrorists blow up 50-100+ people with impunity. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?) people pay far more attention, and place more value and importance, on a single German than perhaps 10 or even 30 people found in countries such as Syria, Iraq or Yemen.
 
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Doh! Don't know how I managed to miss that.

Mods: Please merge or preferably delete.
 
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The weakness of some people who lose their **** over something such as this is just laughable. As cruel and heartless as it might sound people need to accept that people will die to terrorists of every stripe. It's an inevitability: the bomber (or the truck driver in this case) will get through sometimes no matter what you even if you tried to shot and kill every swarthy looking foreigner on sight. You can either accept this inevitability and do you best to reduce the risks involved or give in to fear and terror while making everything far worse for everyone.

Seriously, it's eight people dead. If this is an intentional attack it's hardly even noteworthy unless there has been some serious security oversights. Even completely accidental car accidents have killed more people at once. People ought to start worry when suicide bombing terrorists blow up 50-100+ people with impunity. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?) people pay far more attention, and place more value and importance, on a single German than perhaps 10 or even 30 people found in countries such as Syria, Iraq or Yemen.

By that standard the high time to start worrying about attacks like these was no later than 13 months ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

The problem is that people won't accept that terrorists may kill them, even if the chance of that is near nil. Plus I would think not all foreigners are targeted, indeed they don't even have to be foreigners. Anyone who follows the Muslim faith, be it Pakistani, Arab, Bosnian or German, will be targeted.

It's not xenophobia, it's a fear of of what a random Muslim might do to you. You could say this fear is disproportionally great compared to the actual threat posed by the Muslim terrorists, and you wouldn't be entirely wrong.

That said, Europe will face a choice, probably next year:

a) do something about all these Muslim terrorists or
b) risk electing extremist parties who will destroy the fortunes of the continent and do something about all these Muslim terrorists

Neither will be pretty.

McHrozni
 
The weakness of some people who lose their **** over something such as this is just laughable. As cruel and heartless as it might sound people need to accept that people will die to terrorists of every stripe. It's an inevitability: the bomber (or the truck driver in this case) will get through sometimes no matter what you even if you tried to shot and kill every swarthy looking foreigner on sight. You can either accept this inevitability and do you best to reduce the risks involved or give in to fear and terror while making everything far worse for everyone.

Seriously, it's eight people dead. If this is an intentional attack it's hardly even noteworthy unless there has been some serious security oversights. Even completely accidental car accidents have killed more people at once. People ought to start worry when suicide bombing terrorists blow up 50-100+ people with impunity. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?) people pay far more attention, and place more value and importance, on a single German than perhaps 10 or even 30 people found in countries such as Syria, Iraq or Yemen.

Agree and disagree. The chances of being killed by a terrorist are very, very low, and only the prominence of the attacks in the psyche makes it seem otherwise. Too, any innocent death is worth the same lament, no more, no less, regardless. This includes, of course, the Muslims who are most often targeted, far more than anyone else currently.

Where I disagree is in the domain of analysis, affecting the nature of any solutions sought. What the attack, and many other current events highlight, is the complete dependence of modern society on a minimum level of cohesion and trust. These, in turn, depend on a shared sense of common humanity. That is being undermined very broadly and is under attack not only from religious fanatics, but also from racists, authoritarians, mistaken PC warriors, and just about every stupid dogma one can list.

The real war is with unreason and irrationality as policy (inevitable as human traits), while there are specific battles to be won against religious extremism, fascism, and all their deadly buddies brandishing dogma as truth anywhere. The world needs to get off the absolute truth fix: "Since I'm so right, you die!"

Just take a gander at the last Republican convention: a wild lynch mob drunk on irrational woo... but Trump-True! When any dogma says "it's you who are the real victim and you need to punish all the perps," look out. That's when you get Dutarte and his American shadow, the GOP.
 
That said, Europe will face a choice, probably next year:

a) do something about all these Muslim terrorists or
b) risk electing extremist parties who will destroy the fortunes of the continent and do something about all these Muslim terrorists

Neither will be pretty.
I'm in favour of a) above. These people are murderers and should be hunted down and arrested by the police. But I believe that's already happening. It happened in France after the atrocities there.

What we must not do is start action against sections of the population on grounds of their relegion or ethnicity, in order to forestall fascist pogromist mobs by validating, and even anticipating, their actions. The way to deal with terrorists is to apply the laws, within the social principles, that all these bigots are striving to destroy.
 
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Agree and disagree. The chances of being killed by a terrorist are very, very low, and only the prominence of the attacks in the psyche makes it seem otherwise. Too, any innocent death is worth the same lament, no more, no less, regardless. This includes, of course, the Muslims who are most often targeted, far more than anyone else currently.

There is one more rational component, the terrorist attacks in the West don't happen in vacuum. We do get the news from the places where the state is less functional and less able to keep them under control, and chances to get killed by a terrorist or by a random pro-terrorist thug are enormously greater there. They produce millions of refugees annually, and that's of people the worst groups don't even explicitly target.

Furthermore, there are about 10-20 foiled attacks for each one that succeeds. The low death toll from terrorist attacks could be masked by that. Suppose the number of attempts triple, the police is overwhelmed and can only stop the same number of attacks, resulting in about 60 mass casualty attacks per year. Your chances of dying in a terrorist attack aren't that trivial in that case any more.

One of the evolutionary features of humans is our immense ability to imagine and plan ahead. This is in no small part what is fueling the resentment against Muslims. The second huge part is their stern refusal to do anything meaningful to stop it and consistently appear to be more concerned about whitewashing their religion than preventing further atrocities. All other contributions are small, perhaps even minimal, I would say.

McHrozni
 

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