Disgraceful! Richard Spencer Sucker-Punched While Giving Interview

ponderingturtle said:
Do you accept classifying him as a Nazi? That is what I was objecting to, the people who say he isn't really a nazi.


He didn't seem to mind making reference to them while doing the salute associated with them.
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No, but that is because National Socialism is an ideology that briefly existed mid 20th century. It's splitting hairs, but not every racist or autocrat is a Nazi or a Fascist in the strict meaning of the word. I've stopped throwing the terms around.

He's just trying to be edgy with his 'Hail Trump'. Nazi references are an 'inside joke' in his circles.

EDIT: I'm married to a political scientist. I get corrected when I'm imprecise with my terminology :-)
 
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Eddie Dane said:
No, but that is because National Socialism is an ideology that briefly existed mid 20th century. It's splitting hairs, but not every racist or autocrat is a Nazi or a Fascist in the strict meaning of the word. I've stopped throwing the terms around.

He's just trying to be edgy with his 'Hail Trump'. Nazi references are an 'inside joke' in his circles.

EDIT: I'm married to a political scientist. I get corrected when I'm imprecise with my terminology :-)
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Got it there are no nazi's no matter their ideologyl.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yes why would anyone think that making nazi salutes while saying heil trump would possibly think the guy is a nazi? He is a much more basic form of white supremacist arguing for the mass murder of the untermensch.

It is like those people who make the argument that the KKK is not a racist organization. Clearly you would be reluctant to consider them racist merely for their past actions, just like he isn't a Nazi no matter how much he really likes and acts like one.
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Bring it up with Delphic Oracle. I've been referring to Spencer as a Nazi throughout the thread. DO, on the other hand, has been saying that maybe he Nazi Punching Theory of Social Justice may not apply in to Richard Spencer.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Got it there are no nazi's no matter their ideologyl.
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I may have to climb down from my previous statement. I've just looked up Nazism on Wiki.

Spencer checks the following boxes:
Anti-communism
Anti-Semitism
Belief in the superiority of White people (Aryans)

But not so much for:
Pan-Germanism
The Nazi economic outlook (which is unclear to me, but I don't think Spencer concerns himself with economics at all)
 
Hence the Term Neo Nazi. Somebody who peddles the same garbage, but in a new package,with the more offensive items left off the label.
 
ponderingturtle said:
"Following the attack, Spencer wrote on Twitter: 'Why are there mosques in Quebec City, one of North America's most beautiful cities?'
He continued 'It's almost as if French Canada has the same problem as France with Muslims', before adding 'refugees welcome, eh'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-anger-tweet-Quebec-attack.html#ixzz4XHKKvAVK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4171436/Richard-Spencer-prompts-anger-tweet-Quebec-attack.html
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thank you
 
Eddie Dane said:
I may have to climb down from my previous statement. I've just looked up Nazism on Wiki.

Spencer checks the following boxes:
Anti-communism
Anti-Semitism
Belief in the superiority of White people (Aryans)

But not so much for:
Pan-Germanism
The Nazi economic outlook (which is unclear to me, but I don't think Spencer concerns himself with economics at all)
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The Nazis in Germany never had a comprehensible economic policy beyond rearmament for Germany by any means Necessary. This was one of the causes of their defeat, since in the end the jury rigged ,every changing, economic policy of Hitler's government was a major cause of the German collapse.
 
To me it's simple;
Richard Spencer is a comtemptible piece of Human Garbage;
but that does not justify the use of physical violence against him.
I admit to getting some schadfreude out of this, but still think the guy hittling some should me prosecuted for misdemeanor assault.
 
dudalb said:
The Nazis in Germany never had a comprehensible economic policy beyond rearmament for Germany by any means Necessary. This was one of the causes of their defeat, since in the end the jury rigged ,every changing, economic policy of Hitler's government was a major cause of the German collapse.
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gerry rigged.

smiley
 
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dudalb said:
The Nazis in Germany never had a comprehensible economic policy beyond rearmament for Germany by any means Necessary. This was one of the causes of their defeat, since in the end the jury rigged ,every changing, economic policy of Hitler's government was a major cause of the German collapse.
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I remember that the SA under Roehm took the Socialist label seriously.
And that's why Hitler had him killed, because Hitler was in bed with the industrialists who weren't fond of the radical 'workers party' element.
 
theprestige said:
Fair enough.

But we're not talking about "rare, universally agreed circumstances". We're talking about a masked vigilante punching Richard Spencer in the street.

And while Delphic Oracle tries to fall back on his hypothetical Universal Nazi villain as justification, he also equivocates Nazis with "Trump supporters", making his position philosophically, morally, and socially abhorrent. Appealing to a "dry" sense of humor doesn't help his case either.
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Nope.

You mentioned "(and soon to be Trump supporters)"

I made a glib comment about not being sad about the poor Trump supporters.

I have not said "Trump supporters are Nazis" or "Nazis are Trump supporters" or given any indication of what degree of correlation may or may not exist between them.

You inferred it, but you did so in error.
 
dudalb said:
The Nazis in Germany never had a comprehensible economic policy beyond rearmament for Germany by any means Necessary. This was one of the causes of their defeat, since in the end the jury rigged ,every changing, economic policy of Hitler's government was a major cause of the German collapse.
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And aside from the wall, there doesn't seem to by any irredentism or desire for MOAR CLAY! on the Alt Right's part. The Smallpox Bonus already maxed out two centuries ago.
 
dudalb said:
To me it's simple;
Richard Spencer is a comtemptible piece of Human Garbage;
but that does not justify the use of physical violence against him.
I admit to getting some schadfreude out of this, but still think the guy hittling some should me prosecuted for misdemeanor assault.
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Would you call the police if you suspected or knew who the attacker was?
 
MostlyDead said:
Would you call the police if you suspected or knew who the attacker was?
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Not directed at me, but this is a great question. If I saw a neo-Nazi getting sucker punched, I wouldn't physically intervene unless it was clear there were some way I could do so without escalating things. I wouldn't chase down the puncher, but if the NN needed medical attention after I'd call 911. If I had seen or photographed the puncher (recognized by me or not) I'd call law enforcement and give whatever evidence I could in the case.

If I suspected I knew who the puncher was due to something admissible in court I'd turn that over. If I knew for sure who it was I'd try to get him to turn himself in, then do so myself if he hadn't after a reasonable time. If there were some extenuating circumstances (e.g. he got beaten up a lot as a kid for being the local 'Jew boy' or whatever) I'd sure as hell get those facts known as well.

To me the minimum expectation for a citizen in such a situation would be they'd lend assistance in whatever way they could without endangering themselves or causing some undue burden. That's what do do out of respect for the rule of law when anyone is victimised. Beyond that, when the victim is more sympathetic, I'd personally go above and beyond that, to varying degrees depending.

Basically, there's a certain bar you should be expected to meet for any citizen (or resident, or whatever) who is the victim of a crime. When the victim doesn't have a reprehensible outlook you go much, much further than that.

Edit to add : not part of the question, but I'd also note that anything / everything the NN may want to do for or give me by way of appreciation for my assistance would be flatly refused. I wouldn't have done any of it for his individual sake.
 
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MostlyDead said:
Would you call the police if you suspected or knew who the attacker was?
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I admit I don't know.
If Spencer had suffered serious injury or been killed, yes, I would give the police that information. But since Spencer suffered more embarrassment then anything else, I really don't know.
 
Joe Random said:
Not directed at me, but this is a great question. If I saw a neo-Nazi getting sucker punched, I wouldn't physically intervene unless it was clear there were some way I could do so without escalating things. I wouldn't chase down the puncher, but if the NN needed medical attention after I'd call 911. If I had seen or photographed the puncher (recognized by me or not) I'd call law enforcement and give whatever evidence I could in the case.

If I suspected I knew who the puncher was due to something admissible in court I'd turn that over. If I knew for sure who it was I'd try to get him to turn himself in, then do so myself if he hadn't after a reasonable time. If there were some extenuating circumstances (e.g. he got beaten up a lot as a kid for being the local 'Jew boy' or whatever) I'd sure as hell get those facts known as well.

To me the minimum expectation for a citizen in such a situation would be they'd lend assistance in whatever way they could without endangering themselves or causing some undue burden. That's what do do out of respect for the rule of law when anyone is victimised. Beyond that, when the victim is more sympathetic, I'd personally go above and beyond that, to varying degrees depending.

Basically, there's a certain bar you should be expected to meet for any citizen (or resident, or whatever) who is the victim of a crime. When the victim doesn't have a reprehensible outlook you go much, much further than that.

Edit to add : not part of the question, but I'd also note that anything / everything the NN may want to do for or give me by way of appreciation for my assistance would be flatly refused. I wouldn't have done any of it for his individual sake.
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dudalb said:
I admit I don't know.
If Spencer had suffered serious injury or been killed, yes, I would give the police that information. But since Spencer suffered more embarrassment then anything else, I really don't know.
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Interesting responses. For my part, I would like to think I would intervene first if possible, not to protect the Neo but out of a general aversion to violence. But if he connected and the injury was not grave, I am certain I would neither help nor hinder the attacker's escape (maybe some advice to get out of Dodge, post haste). First aid and call ambulance if needed, but positively not help or hinder investigation/prosecution. Neo is on his own.
 
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Hutch said:
Google Fight:

Jury-Rigged: 404,000 hits
Jerry-Rigged: 339,000 hits
Gerry-Rigged: 198,000 hits

Now, I grant you, Jury-rigged can have an alternative meaning (involving corruption of juries), but all seem to be acceptable usage.

End of line.
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"Jury rigged" is a centuries old sailing expression.

"Jerry built" is much more recent and means something entirely different.

"Jerry/Gerry rigged" are confused attempts at proper usage.

[link]
 
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