Hanging effigies in trees for Halloween

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I have split this thread off from a thread in the US Election section, where a picture of some dummies hanging in the yard of a possible Trump supporter evolved into a discussion of the cultural significance of hanging effigies in trees in America and in other countries.

As splitting threads is not an exact science, I may have moved posts which were better left in the original thread or not moved posts which would be better here. Please let me know if more work is needed.

Posted By: Agatha

ETA: This is actually completely off-topic for this thread. My bad.

I'd be curious to know where the "tradition" of hanging effigies from trees on Halloween came from. Because, here in America, that visual is strongly linked to the lynching of blacks in the south.

It's not something I've thought about before, but I suspect that's much of the problem with these sorts of displays: the people putting them up simply don't think about them beyond, "Hey, it's Halloween; time to hang some "dark-skinned" dummies from trees!"

But now that I do think about it, I'm not sure "It's Halloween," or "It's tradition," should qualify as valid excuses to ignore the (potentially) terrible origins of said tradition.

Not that hanging people in general isn't terrible, but you do have to be careful about related cultural baggage.

 

[quadraginta]

For the record, all the news sources are saying those are blacks being lynched in that yard, however the homeowner apparently disagrees.

Dummies Lynched Next to a Trump Sign for Halloween in Kendall UPDATED

For the updated, scroll down to the followup picture. The owners added a sign.

Any apologist has to be verging on dementia to entertain the idea that an adult in Florida could conceive of a display like this while being completely unaware of the clearly racist (and threatening) implications.

Knowing this, and then going ahead with such a display, while pretending that the motive is "it's Halloween" is unconscionable. Also blatantly disingenuous.

There is an infinite number of ways to decorate for Halloween without even approaching anything marginally racist. To do so to this degree can only be premeditated.

 

[Belz...]

Any apologist has to be verging on dementia to entertain the idea that an adult in Florida could conceive of a display like this while being completely unaware of the clearly racist (and threatening) implications.

Must be an American thing. At first I thought it was supposed to be Hillary and her VP.

Up here in Canada it'd just be a kickass Halloween decoration.

 

[Fitter]

ETA: This is actually completely off-topic for this thread. My bad.

I'd be curious to know where the "tradition" of hanging effigies from trees on Halloween came from. Because, here in America, that visual is strongly linked to the lynching of blacks in the south.

It's not something I've thought about before, but I suspect that's much of the problem with these sorts of displays: the people putting them up simply don't think about them beyond, "Hey, it's Halloween; time to hang some "dark-skinned" dummies from trees!"

But now that I do think about it, I'm not sure "It's Halloween," or "It's tradition," should qualify as valid excuses to ignore the (potentially) terrible origins of said tradition.

Not that hanging people in general isn't terrible, but you do have to be careful about related cultural baggage.

Guy Fawkes night, is one theory.

/derail

 

[NoahFence]

Must be an American thing. At first I thought it was supposed to be Hillary and her VP.

Up here in Canada it'd just be a kickass Halloween decoration.

Does Canada have a history of threatening blacks with effigies such as this, and following it up with the task thing?

 

[quadraginta]

Must be an American thing. At first I thought it was supposed to be Hillary and her VP.

Up here in Canada it'd just be a kickass Halloween decoration.

Do you have a history of lynching a lot of black people (and whites, if they were poor enough) up there in Canada?

In the American South for a while it was almost a routine entertainment. Refreshments were sold and people took home souvenirs. People made up postcards.

There was no fear of repercussions.

And not really all that long ago. They were still not uncommon when my father was born. In 1930.

Nearly 3,500 African Americans and 1,300 whites were lynched in the United States between 1882 and 1968, mostly from 1882 to 1920.[8]

​

It was still going on while I grew up.

This is a part of the cultural history of the U.S. People here who try to deny it are serving racist agendas. And I doubt that many of them are doing it in ignorance.

 

[Belz...]

Do you have a history of lynching a lot of black people (and whites, if they were poor enough) up there in Canada?

You know, I didn't answer this the first time around but I find that not very convincing. Yes, the US has a terrible history about this. And? I don't think bringing up a bygone age, with people all dead by now, is very convincing. In fact I'd say that it would be much better to de-power words and meaning by not making them taboo. From a rational perspective, of course.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I don't think bringing up a bygone age, with people all dead by now, is very convincing. In fact I'd say that it would be much better to de-power words and meaning by not making them taboo. From a rational perspective, of course.

Holocaust.

 

[Belz...]

Holocaust.

Good example. I don't think Germany's laws against displaying the Swastika is doing anyone any good. It's creating a taboo that gives the symbol and the ideology that used in in the 30s and 40s way too much power.

 

[quadraginta]

You know, I didn't answer this the first time around but I find that not very convincing. Yes, the US has a terrible history about this. And? I don't think bringing up a bygone age, with people all dead by now, is very convincing. In fact I'd say that it would be much better to de-power words and meaning by not making them taboo. From a rational perspective, of course.

Who's all dead? The lynching victims?

Well, yeah.

If you mean people who were around or alive when it happened.

Well, no.

Did you see the dates in the quote I provided? 1968 wasn't all that long ago. I was still in high school. When my father was born the practice was still nearly at its height. He's still alive.

It really isn't all that bygone. Friends and relatives of lynching victims are still alive and kicking. How bygone is that?

=======================================

The word isn't taboo. It's just ugly. So is the meaning.

You can't pretend or ignore that away, and I don't think it's a good idea to try to.

It's better to remember how depraved and evil it is, in hopes that it doesn't happen again.

And at any rate, setting up a lynching tableau, especially in a deep South state with racial tensions already plenty high, goes a lot farther than words. It's basically a **** You presentation, issued like a dare. "See! Here's some free speech for ya, chump. Wotcha gonna do about it?"

Then the coward who puts it up tries to pretend it was all harmless fun.

Yeah. Right.




It is an unequivocally deplorable act, and I am at the very least deeply suspicious of the motives of anyone who wastes time and energy trying to find some apology and justification for it.

At best they are blind and ignorant. And that's the kindest thing I can think of to say.

At worst they are every bit as guilty of perpetuating racial hatreds and tensions as the most blatant White Supremacist. Maybe more so, since at least the White Supremacist is upfront about it and doesn't try to come up with mealy mouthed, transparent excuses for their actions after the fact.

 

[quadraginta]

Good example. I don't think Germany's laws against displaying the Swastika is doing anyone any good. It's creating a taboo that gives the symbol and the ideology that used in in the 30s and 40s way too much power.

Does it matter to you that there are no laws in the U.S. against that Florida cretin displaying his little "Halloween decoration"? Even without the dissembling.

You seem to be drawing a comparison between two different things.

 

[SezMe]

You know, I didn't answer this the first time around but I find that not very convincing. Yes, the US has a terrible history about this. And? I don't think bringing up a bygone age, with people all dead by now, is very convincing. In fact I'd say that it would be much better to de-power words and meaning by not making them taboo. From a rational perspective, of course.

The problem with this line of thought is that the attitudes which allowed encouraged acts such as lynching are NOT dead, they have been passed along from generation to generation.

 

[Belz...]

Who's all dead? The lynching victims?

Well, yeah.

Nice.

Did you see the dates in the quote I provided? 1968 wasn't all that long ago. I was still in high school. When my father was born the practice was still nearly at its height. He's still alive.

My mistake, then. I thought it was longer than that.

The word isn't taboo. It's just ugly. So is the meaning.

What? Lynching? I was talking in general terms.

Then the coward who puts it up tries to pretend it was all harmless fun.

Again, if not for the Trump sign it wouldn't be so obvious.

 

[Belz...]

Does it matter to you that there are no laws in the U.S. against that Florida cretin displaying his little "Halloween decoration"?

It does. I think people should be able to express their ideas freely, even if those ideas are monstrous to us. An evil idea is better purged by light than by shadow.

And there's also the matter of de-powering the evil idea, as I said earlier.

 

[Belz...]

The problem with this line of thought is that the attitudes which allowed encouraged acts such as lynching are NOT dead, they have been passed along from generation to generation.

Amazing how hard it is to change an idea, isn't it?

 

[Darat]

An evil idea is better purged by light than by shadow.

...snip..

Evidence?

 

[Belz...]

Evidence?

You know, this pseudo-skeptical, knee-jerk response to every single declaration made by someone is neither clever nor useful. How would you even go around providing numbers for that?

But sure, have it your way. I'm sure that an evil idea festering where no one can see it will be far less dangerous than one that is exposed, mocked and de-fanged.

 

[NoahFence]

Amazing how hard it is to change an idea, isn't it?

I wish that would sink into the thick skulls of people who think Trump will somehow defeat ISIS because of his alpha male shtick.

 

[Belz...]

It would be exactly as obvious. There isn't anything subtle about it. No Southerner and few Yankees could look at that display and not instantly understand what the intent was. Not if they are honest with themselves.

So all hangings from tree refer to black lynchings automatically?

I don't necessarily disbelieve this. I just find the difference between cultures interesting.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

So all hangings from tree refer to black lynchings automatically?

I don't necessarily disbelieve this. I just find the difference between cultures interesting.

It is a deep cultural meme. Look up the song "strange fruit." Only white folk you see hanged from a tree are horse thieves, but they get cut down by someone. The only bodies that get LEFT hanging are pirates and n-words. And we don't have pirates inland.