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Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VII

NoahFence said:
Low hanging pants, ball caps turned to the side, etc. They're dressed like typical black kids.
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Low hanging pants can be explained by gravity. I can't see the cap clearly and nothing about the clothing looks particularly urban.

It's not obvious to me from this photo. I can't see the heads clearly enough to make out any features or know what they're made from.

I'm not saying that this isn't an overtly racist message. I just can't tell with certainty from this photo and I prefer to have a bit of clear evidence before I turn on the moral outrage and condemn a stranger as vile scum. Even if he's a Trump voter. In Florida.
 
phiwum said:
Low hanging pants can be explained by gravity. I can't see the cap clearly and nothing about the clothing looks particularly urban.

It's not obvious to me from this photo. I can't see the heads clearly enough to make out any features or know what they're made from.

I'm not saying that this isn't an overtly racist message. I just can't tell with certainty from this photo and I prefer to have a bit of clear evidence before I turn on the moral outrage and condemn a stranger as vile scum. Even if he's a Trump voter. In Florida.
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Pathetic.
 
calebprime said:
I don't have a dog in this, but I'm curious how you, Phiwum, might judge the man if he were daring oversensitive liberals to get upset, as one might by flying a confederate flag. Just poking the pc types.
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I think that's comparable to intentionally sending a racist threat. In fact, it is sending a racist threat, not because one is racist, but because one is trolling. That seems just as harmful.

I admit I haven't thought about this carefully, but I think doing something horrible in order to troll is roughly as bad as doing something horrible for simpler reasons.
 
NoahFence said:
Pathetic.
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Feel free to tell me how a reluctance to condemn others as racist without clear evidence is pathetic.

I honestly can't see how you can tell one or both of these figures is wearing a sideways ball cap. Sure could be, but this photo isn't clear to me.

ETA: While searching for more information, I found this article about a Trump effigy hanging in Houston. That's beyond the pale in my book, but not as bad as deliberately hanging two black figures in order to send a threatening message (assuming that's the case in FL).

See also this photo (Terrible site, popup ads) for a better photo of the FL effigies. (The cap is not sideways in this photo, by the way.)
 
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phiwum said:
Feel free to tell me how a reluctance to condemn others as racist without clear evidence is pathetic.

I honestly can't see how you can tell one or both of these figures is wearing a sideways ball cap. Sure could be, but this photo isn't clear to me.

ETA: While searching for more information, I found this article about a Trump effigy hanging in Houston. That's beyond the pale in my book, but not as bad as deliberately hanging two black figures in order to send a threatening message (assuming that's the case in FL).

See also this photo (Terrible site, popup ads) for a better photo of the FL effigies. (The cap is not sideways in this photo, by the way.)
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I assume you are aware of the POLITICAL tradition, here and in Europe, in politics or in sports rallies, of hanging your opponent in effigy? That's why there's a term for it..... hanging in effigy.

I assume you've also heard of the white tradition of lynching black people.

Is it not possible to see how one is a gregarious political statement and the other is a call back to easily remembered days in Southern USA history?

(The people cited, particularly the neighbor claiming that they are in two different yards are just being dishonest. There are pictures from several angles and in one you can see the little trellis fence denoting the property. The hanging figures are in the yard with all the Halloween decorations. And that's the yard with the Trump Pence sign.)

The good old boy excuse for beatings, lynchings, draggings, tar-and-feathering, et al..... "All jes' a misunderstanding folks. Jus' a couple of the good old boys having theyself some fun."
 
As promised...

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Racist?
 
Foolmewunz said:
I assume you are aware of the POLITICAL tradition, here and in Europe, in politics or in sports rallies, of hanging your opponent in effigy? That's why there's a term for it..... hanging in effigy.

I assume you've also heard of the white tradition of lynching black people.

Is it not possible to see how one is a gregarious political statement and the other is a call back to easily remembered days in Southern USA history?

(The people cited, particularly the neighbor claiming that they are in two different yards are just being dishonest. There are pictures from several angles and in one you can see the little trellis fence denoting the property. The hanging figures are in the yard with all the Halloween decorations. And that's the yard with the Trump Pence sign.)

The good old boy excuse for beatings, lynchings, draggings, tar-and-feathering, et al..... "All jes' a misunderstanding folks. Jus' a couple of the good old boys having theyself some fun."
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I agree that it's entirely possible that the hanging effigies are meant to send a political or racist message. But surely you can agree that it's possible it was intended as a Halloween decoration.

And surely you agree that we shouldn't accuse someone of being overtly racist without clear evidence that this is the case.

As far as I'm concerned, we do not have clear enough evidence that this guy intended to send a racist message. I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to claiming someone is overtly racist.

We both agree, of course, that this decoration is insensitive.
 
Garrison said:
Corney...
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Garrison said:
...Corney...
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This bothers me more than it should: his last name is spelled C-o-m-e-y.

NoahFence said:
Low hanging pants, ball caps turned to the side, etc. They're dressed like typical black kids.
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Yeah. They're clearly black mannequins dressed as stereotypical black "thugs". That's not unintentional.

phiwum said:
Low hanging pants can be explained by gravity. I can't see the cap clearly and nothing about the clothing looks particularly urban.
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This is pathetic. Your eyes are no worse than mine, I can guarantee that. But it seems like, in some ridiculous effort to be hyper-reasonable, you're choosing not to see anything clearly. It's easy to be "neutral" when you act like you can't see anything.

ETA: "I can't even tell that they're black," is not a statement about the subject's potential racism; it's a statement about your own perception. Understand that.
 
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Tony Stark said:
And look at this:

“You know, $10,000 really isn’t a Trump kind of donation,” Trump said, according to interviews Knauer gave at the time. He wanted $250,000.

The move backfired. The band re-shot the video with a look-alike. Knauer said they gave Trump nothing.
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Heh. Trump is like an impotent Darth Vader.

"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."
"**** off."
 
phiwum said:
I can't see that the figures are intentionally black, though they look dark.

There is a (mostly forgotten) tradition of hanging effigies for Halloween. This image looks exceptionally insensitive, but I don't think I see clear enough evidence to conclude intentional racism. Perhaps if I knew the man, the evidence would go one way or the other.
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One would then expect to see something indicating halloween?
 
phiwum said:
Certainly. I can't tell which tradition he's following here. If it really is a matter of sending a threat, then he's vile scum. If it's really an insensitive decoration, then he should be criticized and hopefully educated.

In neither case is this an acceptable thing to do, but the severity of the transgression depends on the tradition.
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If they were white I might agree with you.

But America has had a long horrible history in the South of lynching African Americans. Its not hard to find images of these in our history books. Some with smiling white people underneath. There is little doubt about the racist message these people are sending. Halloween is offering a pretense that they are taking advantage of. It gives them cover and deniability.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
This is pathetic. Your eyes are no worse than mine, I can guarantee that. But it seems like, in some ridiculous effort to be hyper-reasonable, you're choosing not to see clearly. It's easy to be "neutral" when you act like you can't see anything.
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I honestly can't see any sideways baseball cap, and a different photo clearly shows a baseball cap worn with the bill forward. Of course, it could have been changed, but at this point, I don't know why you're so certain that the baseball cap is sideways.

The photo I previously linked to has a much clearer image of the dummies. I don't see anything particularly stereotypical of black thugs in that photo.
 
acbytesla said:
If they were white I might agree with you.

But America has had a long horrible history in the South of lynching African Americans. Its not hard to find images of these in our history books. Some with smiling white people underneath. There is little doubt about the racist message these people are sending. Halloween is offering a pretense that they are taking advantage of. It gives them cover and deniability.
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It's not that obvious to me, but I'll happily agree that, at best, it's ridiculously insensitive and invites misinterpretation.

At worst, he's a horrid racist.

His neighbors may be in a position to make an informed decision about his motives. I don't think I am.
 
phiwum said:
It's not that obvious to me, but I'll happily agree that, at best, it's ridiculously insensitive and invites misinterpretation.

At worst, he's a horrid racist.

His neighbors may be in a position to make an informed decision about his motives. I don't think I am.
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You're right. He might just be a moron and racially insensitive.

But I know lots of racists who don't think they are.
 
LOL, Donald offered Chris Christie the VP spot. Manafort didn't like it so he tricked Donald into meeting with Pence and they changed his mind. I bet Christie was livid.

“Christie said he thinks he deserves it and he earned it,” a second Trump source said. Convinced, Trump made the *offer.

Christie “said all the BS that Trump likes to hear, and Trump said, ‘Yeah, sure I’m giving it to you.’ ”

That didn’t sit well with Manafort, who had arranged for Trump to meet Pence in Indianapolis on July 13, and fly back together to New York the next day for a formal announcement.

After Trump tentatively decided on Christie, Manafort told Trump his plane had a mechanical problem, campaign sources said, forcing Trump to spend another night in the Hoosier State. Pence then made his case to be Trump’s No. 2 over dinner as Trump’s advisers argued that Christie’s Bridgegate troubles would sink the campaign.

“Trump had wanted Christie but Bridgegate would have been the biggest national story,” a third Trump source said. “He’d lose the advantage of not being corrupt.”

Trump agreed to name Pence the next day and broke the news to Christie, saying it would “tear my family apart if I gave you VP,” a source said.
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http://nypost.com/2016/10/30/trump-offered-christie-his-vp-slot-then-rescinded-it/?0p19G=c
 
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While the mainstream news has yet to bring up this relevant Trump hypocrisy, he has two fraud cases pending in court that were delayed by the judge until after the election to be fair to candidate Trump.

Second Trump University suit stalled until after election
“It's no surprise that Donald Trump is using every legal option to avoid standing trial for allegedly operating a sham for-profit university," Schneiderman said in a statement. "As we look forward to demonstrating in court, Mr. Trump's phony university defrauded thousands of students through an illicit scheme that cost them millions of dollars. I am confident that the Court of Appeals will agree with the lower court's unanimous decision in this case."
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