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Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VI

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marplots said:
But since the subject has broadened out, let's say he is guilty of everything he's been accused of in the sexual assault/harassment area. Does this mean he's unqualified to be president? And if so, why?
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I don't think you can run the oval office from a jail cell.
 
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No more apology tours! What...

Donald Apologizes to Serbia For Yugoslavia Bombing

U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump has issued an apology for his country’s decision to bomb Serbia during Bill Clinton’s tenure at the White House.

U.S. and NATO allies launched aerial campaigns against the faltering Yugoslav regime, targeting ethnic Serb troops in 1995 and 1999. The first attack was carried out in support of groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina, seeking independence from Belgrade, while the second was in support of similar forces in Kosovo.

"The bombing of Serbs, who were our allies in both world wars, was a big mistake,” Trump told Serbian weekly magazine Nedeljnik. “Serbians are very good people. Unfortunately, the Clinton administration caused them a lot of harm, but also throughout the Balkans, which they made a mess out of."
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He's completely blasé about ethnic cleansing and making no effort to conceal his alignment with Putin.
 
Argumemnon said:
How does one grope an octopus?
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Don't you remember being a needy teenage boy? I remember being a needy teenage boy. It's very embarrassing in retrospect. Donald Trump has every right to the sense of embarrassed shame that drives his current spasms of defensiveness-hostility.

He deserves it.

What he does not deserve is to be taken seriously as a candidate for the presidency. I keep thinking that any minute now this election will turn into an Animaniacs' Chicken Boo sketch "Hey, wait a minute! He's not really a candidate, he's just a chicken!"
 
sunmaster14 said:
And Trump says that he never withdraws. :rolleyes:

I wonder if he got consent before going into Virginia, in the first place. I assume you don't need consent to pull out.
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That's an interesting legal issue. If a man tried to pull out but his partner grabs on with her legs and refuses to let go, is she potentially committing a crime?

I would imagine circumstances would be a major factor. "He had a cramp and she didn't realize it and was on the verge of climax," would likely follow a different legal path than, "They agreed to use withdrawal as birth control and she was trying to get pregnant whether he liked it or not."

I mean, I don't think any of us are arguing that a man who stays in when told to get out is in the wrong.
 
marplots said:
I don't want to get dragged into defending Trump as a person. There is much damaged about him and much more to detest. I only got into this regarding the "locker room" talk bit.

But since the subject has broadened out, let's say he is guilty of everything he's been accused of in the sexual assault/harassment area. Does this mean he's unqualified to be president? And if so, why?
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Seriously?
 
marplots said:
Yep, that's rape. Which makes me a rape victim too, since I got grabbed in the crotch once. I only wish I had known it at the time. Turns out I've been in denial and that's why I'm not reacting with the appropriate level of outrage.

By not embracing my victimhood, I'm tacitly supporting the dominant rape culture. Doubly victimized and now triggered. I didn't speak out or press charges and my victimizer probably went on to grab other crotches, empowered by my failure to take action. Forgive me.
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Does the asinine devil's advocacy ever bore you? It's not particularly interesting where I sit.

We don't have to argue over whether grabbing a woman by the pussy without her consent is rape or merely assault. It is a very bad thing to do, and you know that it is a bad thing to do. Prove me wrong: state clearly and explicitly that you think grabbing another person's genitals without consent is okay, just so long as they don't file charges thereafter. Is this your opinion?

If not, then we are agreed. What Trump said is terrible. Find some other windmill.
 
marplots said:
I don't want to get dragged into defending Trump as a person. There is much damaged about him and much more to detest. I only got into this regarding the "locker room" talk bit.

But since the subject has broadened out, let's say he is guilty of everything he's been accused of in the sexual assault/harassment area. Does this mean he's unqualified to be president? And if so, why?
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Assuming that Trump is actually guilty of the sexual crimes that he is lately being accused of (to say nothing of the numerous other crimes that he may be accused of), then I would say that does indeed disqualify him for the presidency.

To explain, while a president is normally given immunity for criminal acts that he may have committed while he is the president, however the president is accountable for crimes that he committed before becoming the president. And since the constitution does discuss how a president can be removed from Office due to the "Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office", therefore I would have to say that 'the Donald' is indeed unqualified to be the President.

I hope this helps.
 
marplots said:
I don't want to get dragged into defending Trump as a person. There is much damaged about him and much more to detest. I only got into this regarding the "locker room" talk bit.

But since the subject has broadened out, let's say he is guilty of everything he's been accused of in the sexual assault/harassment area. Does this mean he's unqualified to be president? And if so, why?
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It depends on what you mean by "unqualified."

Legally unqualified, probably not. I'm not aware of any laws that would prevent him from serving, even if convicted. It would however open him up to impeachment, a likely possibility, especially if the Republicans in the House and Senate would rather work with is VP than with him.

Morally unqualified, I would think so. A rapist in the White House is a bad, bad thing for enough reasons to eat up a few thousand pages of text.

Practically unqualified, as in he couldn't win the election? I think Trump is testing those waters right now.
 
marplots said:
....
But since the subject has broadened out, let's say he is guilty of everything he's been accused of in the sexual assault/harassment area. Does this mean he's unqualified to be president? And if so, why?
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At the very least, it shows a lack of impulse control, an inflated self-image and an unwillingness or inability to behave according to established social norms. Forget sex; suppose every time Trump or a hypothetical candidate visited somebody else's house, he grabbed whatever he liked (the silverware, painting over the fireplace, rare books) for himself and said "When you're a star they let you do it." Would that be acceptable conduct?
 
uke2se said:
It's another case of Trump suckling Putin's teats.
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Coming out as pro-genocide is way to attempt to pivot coverage away from the deluge of reports of sexual assaults against you. Elevating Donald Trump to being a major party presidential nominee was a crime against human decency.
 
Darat said:
Problem with that proposition is that there isn't any other examples I can think of in which he has shown the self-awareness that is required to mock yourself.
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Yeah, you have a point.
 
Tony Stark said:
Running for President may actually result in Donald's whole life being destroyed.
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And hopefully the name Trump is becoming so toxic he's also destroying any chance at a political career that any of his kids may have aspired to.

Steve S
 
phiwum said:
We don't have to argue over whether grabbing a woman by the pussy without her consent is rape or merely assault. It is a very bad thing to do, and you know that it is a bad thing to do. Prove me wrong: state clearly and explicitly that you think grabbing another person's genitals without consent is okay, just so long as they don't file charges thereafter. Is this your opinion?
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I don't think it's OK, but we've been down the road of "consent" already.

Why do you think it's OK to conflate "bad behavior," "deplorable", and "sexual assault"? Can you describe where the lines ought to be? (Rhetorical, no need to answer.)

The problem here is one of subjective being foisted off as objective. We think the standards in our own heads are (and should be) obvious to everyone who is moral and that they should share our suppositions. But plainly standards of behavior have changed over the many decades Trump has been alive.

We seem happy enough to say that a pat on the ass is sexual harassment now, and always has been. We feel better, I suppose, dismissing previous cultural mores as less enlightened and harmful to women. Our children will no doubt do the same with things we do just as casually now. That's the root hypocrisy, a failure to see this in a relative light. A failure to accept the role of norms and an insistence on making one's subjective evaluation objective in order to impose it on others.

Trump thinks he has permission. He doesn't. But it's not criminal.
 
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