Going to a psychic medium party

[Garrette]

I regard the bible as largely fiction, made up by Jewish scribes to promote their own tribe.
So the first thing I noticed in the Quran is that it copies the bible stories as if they were literal truths. Since I do not believe in Jonah and the whale, and Noah's ark, I concluded that Muhammad stole most of his material from the bible. He then repeats references to bible characters over and over again. He also makes personal issues out of things like how to behave in his tent, and so on. Not a message from God, would you believe.
It also has ridiculous things like talking ants, and the stars are missiles to throw at devils.

Which is precisely why I said "other religions" and not "Christianity."

Tell me how talking ants and stars-as-missiles exceed in their ridiculousness the following:

1. A veil beyond which are spirits
2. The spirits are reincarnated except when they are not
3. They are reincarnated in order to improve through experience
4. No one knows what that experience is
5. No one can see beyond the veil except those who do
6. The spirits don't want to offer proof
7. Yet the spirits want you to discuss your experience on the internet
8. The spirits say the world isn't ready to know about them except for people like you
9. The best the spirits can provide you is experience completely consistent with there not being any spirits

The stars and ants don't compare that badly.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

He may have made money out of the book, but if you read it you will discover that Silver Birch says if anything he said goes against your reason then reject it.

This is a non-sequitur. You offered it as an example of how spiritualists don't make money out of their profession.

Most mediums who circulate the churches do not get any money except for travelling expenses.

So some do? How do you know that the person you refer to didn't?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Unlikely as it may seem, I think some spirits can see into the future. But not the recently departed , only higher spirits. I suspect I was allowed special dispensation from on high to win that money, because my dead relatives would not be likely to have developed enough to see into the future for me.

I think the spirit world wanted me to have a computer to do precisely what I am doing, and have been doing on different forums for over a decade. Which is writing about my experiences and beliefs.

I assume that you have more evidence for this than you have offered in this thread. Can you explain what that evidence is, please?

Oh, and I don't think it's likely that confirmation bias exists, I know it for a fact.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

There is also the theological point of view that spiritualists teach, which is we are incarnate for experience sake, and we learn by trial and error over many lifetimes of reincarnation and karma. We are not meant to see behind the veil as a matter of course, so the spirit world deliberately withholds absolute proof of their existence. Because the human race is not evolved enough to know. Worldly men would seize on occult knowledge for their own ends and the world would be a worse place than it is now, with warlocks enslaving peoples minds. There would be more men trying to stare at goats and kill them as a prelude to using psychic energy to kill people.
But some people are naturally psychic, and they are able to give subjective evidence of survival to the bereaved, and healing to the sick.

Or it could all be a game by demons who delight in people falsely believing in good spirits, and love luring people away from the light.

That's the thing if you're going to believe something without any real evidence - you can fill in the blanks with absolutely anything you want to. So, let's assume that your evidence is enough to establish that souls survive after death - what evidence do you have that the spirits people contact are not malevolent?

 

[Scorpion]

This is a non-sequitur. You offered it as an example of how spiritualists don't make money out of their profession.

So some do? How do you know that the person you refer to didn't?

I have been in the back rooms of spiritualist churches after meetings, and seen them getting a small amount of travelling expenses from the takings in the collection plate. They do not get much.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Never the less countless people think there is a God because they feel it in their hearts.

Countless people think Mexicans are lazy because they feel it in their hearts. This does not imply that it's true.

I read the Quran shortly after 9/11 because I wanted to understand the motivations of the Muslim suicide attackers. I soon found the Quran a dubious work, for one thing it paints a terrible picture of hell for unbelievers, even worse than the bible. It even says Gods curse is upon unbelievers. It goes entirely against everything I ever learned in spiritualism.
There are many more things wrong with the Quran but that's a thread in itself.

Of course, an alternate explanation is that the Quran is correct and it's spiritualism that's in the wrong.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I have been in the back rooms of spiritualist churches after meetings, and seen them getting a small amount of travelling expenses from the takings in the collection plate. They do not get much.

That doesn't answer my questions.

 

[Scorpion]

Or it could all be a game by demons who delight in people falsely believing in good spirits, and love luring people away from the light.

That's the thing if you're going to believe something without any real evidence - you can fill in the blanks with absolutely anything you want to. So, let's assume that your evidence is enough to establish that souls survive after death - what evidence do you have that the spirits people contact are not malevolent?

I was psychically open to the spirit world for some time and could feel psychic energy myself. I could sense it was not evil because my nervous system was like a psychic barometer. I felt a comforting psychic warmth surround me.
Christians do think I am deceived by demons, in fact I argue with some on other forums. But you obviously do not believe in demons yourself.

I have had many comforting messages through mediums, as well as my own feelings, and these experiences combined tell me the spirits I have heard from are not evil.

 

[Scorpion]

Of course, an alternate explanation is that the Quran is correct and it's spiritualism that's in the wrong.

If the Quran is correct God is a monster worse than the wrathful, vengeful one the bible describes. The Quran says unbelievers will have boiling liquids poured on them that will melt their skins and their insides also, and it says they will have garments of fire that will burn off their skins and their skins will be burnt off and renewed and burnt off again for all eternity.

I am sure none of that is true and the God I believe in burns no one. We are all ultimately redeemed after many incarnations. I have heard this same message from several different trance mediums, and I believe in them, not the Quran.

 

[Pixel42]

There is also the theological point of view that spiritualists teach, which is we are incarnate for experience sake, and we learn by trial and error over many lifetimes of reincarnation and karma. We are not meant to see behind the veil as a matter of course, so the spirit world deliberately withholds absolute proof of their existence. Because the human race is not evolved enough to know. Worldly men would seize on occult knowledge for their own ends and the world would be a worse place than it is now, with warlocks enslaving peoples minds. There would be more men trying to stare at goats and kill them as a prelude to using psychic energy to kill people.
But some people are naturally psychic, and they are able to give subjective evidence of survival to the bereaved, and healing to the sick.

My anecdotes are no evidence to you, but if you spent as long as I have in a sincere effort to learn if there is a spirit world from mediums you might find you too would get subjective evidence that might convince you the spirit world exists.

As I already told you no amount of subjective experiences - including my own - will ever convince me, because I understand how easily everyone - including me - can be fooled, deliberately or inadvertently. Only objective evidence is reliable. That is a lesson that has been painfully learnt by generations of our ancestors, it's why they invented the scientific method. It's a shame you refuse to learn it.

 

[Garrette]

If the Quran is correct God is a monster worse than the wrathful, vengeful one the bible describes. The Quran says unbelievers will have boiling liquids poured on them that will melt their skins and their insides also, and it says they will have garments of fire that will burn off their skins and their skins will be burnt off and renewed and burnt off again for all eternity.

I am sure none of that is true and the God I believe in burns no one. We are all ultimately redeemed after many incarnations. I have heard this same message from several different trance mediums, and I believe in them, not the Quran.

Which is precisely Squeegee Beckenheim's point. You are choosing what you believe not based on any evidence but instead on what makes you feel good. That's fine, but it is not evidence of anything except that you feel good.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I was psychically open to the spirit world for some time and could feel psychic energy myself. I could sense it was not evil because my nervous system was like a psychic barometer. I felt a comforting psychic warmth surround me.

On what basis do you claim that a malevolent entity couldn't induce such feelings in you?

I have had many comforting messages through mediums, as well as my own feelings, and these experiences combined tell me the spirits I have heard from are not evil.

On what basis do you claim that a malevolent entity couldn't offer you comfort in this life in order to guarantee you eternal pain in the next?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

If the Quran is correct God is a monster worse than the wrathful, vengeful one the bible describes. The Quran says unbelievers will have boiling liquids poured on them that will melt their skins and their insides also, and it says they will have garments of fire that will burn off their skins and their skins will be burnt off and renewed and burnt off again for all eternity.

Okay. Why does this mean that it is not correct?

I am sure none of that is true and the God I believe in burns no one. We are all ultimately redeemed after many incarnations. I have heard this same message from several different trance mediums, and I believe in them, not the Quran.

It seems that the basis for you believing this is that it is what you would like to be true. That's not a very rigorous bit of reasoning.

And you still haven't answered the question as to how you know that the medium who told you about your brother wasn't one of those that you admitted to collect a fee for their appearances.

 

[Scorpion]

On what basis do you claim that a malevolent entity couldn't induce such feelings in you?

On what basis do you claim that a malevolent entity couldn't offer you comfort in this life in order to guarantee you eternal pain in the next?

I used to be slightly clairsentient, and I trusted my feelings of psychic energy.
I also saw a medium who said there was nothing evil around me.

I base most of my views on attending many trance lectures by various famous mediums, and by my reading of spiritualist books. They say that evil cannot approach you if you are spiritual minded.

I have more respect for God than to believe he leaves us to be victims or to suffer eternal torment.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Something that rings a sour note is that these spirits make an exception to get you a computer, yet they daily allow millions to starve and suffer indignities.

I can't help but believe that if such spirits exist, they are exceedingly evil.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I used to be slightly clairsentient, and I trusted my feelings of psychic energy.

How do you know that these feelings could not be fooled?

I also saw a medium who said there was nothing evil around me.

How do you know that s/he was infallible?

I base most of my views on attending many trance lectures by various famous mediums, and by my reading of spiritualist books. They say that evil cannot approach you if you are spiritual minded.

...which is what they would say, if they had been fooled into believing that to be true.

I have more respect for God than to believe he leaves us to be victims or to suffer eternal torment.

You don't believe that bad things happen to people at all? Not even those who aren't "spiritual minded", whom evil can approach?

This seems to be another variation on you believing what you would like to be true. Life doesn't work like that. I would like it to be true that I am married to Natalie Dormer. Yet I am not.

 

[fuelair]

I only heard that voice tell me I had won on the one occasion in all the years I have been doing the lottery. That is the occasion I did win. I think the spirit world wanted me to have a computer so they cheated fate and helped me win money for one. That was evidence to me and me alone, but it reassured me there is a spirit world. I am sure they will never give me a big win because that would be bad karma, but they allowed me a win when I needed it most.

The odds against a five number win were 55,000 to 1 and the odds against a voice telling you, you won on the only occasion you did win must be astronomical.

I know a load when I see/hear/read one. This is a big load. Feel free to keep it and lug it around with you. Like Jacob Marley did!!!! (fictional like yours also!!!!!).

 

[fuelair]

Also, statistics: the more people who play, the more chances someone will win. And the wish to win can, by itself, induce that kind of feeling. I like psychology.

 

[Scorpion]

Something that rings a sour note is that these spirits make an exception to get you a computer, yet they daily allow millions to starve and suffer indignities.

I can't help but believe that if such spirits exist, they are exceedingly evil.

The spirit world cannot change the world directly, only in subtle ways like influencing and inspiring people. This shows up more in times of great troubles like the war. I firmly believe the spirit world worked behind the scenes then and inspired Churchill's speeches. There is also the inspiration of the man who invented radio beams, he believed he was inspired. Also air chief marshal Lord Dowding's wife was a spiritualist.

But the spirit world cannot take away all suffering or we would not have the opportunity to spiritually evolve.

 

[Ranb]

If the Quran is correct God is a monster worse than the wrathful, vengeful one the bible describes....

Not sure which bible you are reading but you don't have to go very far in the one I read to get wrath and vengeful crap. From Genisis;

The flood that killed everything but that on the ark.
The plagues in Egypt.
Killing everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah including the children I presume; in a rain of fire.
The seven year worldwide famine.

There is plenty of monster to go around.

Ranb