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Merged Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion Part II

Cosmic Yak said:
By which "logic" then, no American can prove where he or she was born. Strange how this argument is only applied to Obama, don't you think? It's almost as if people were trying to conduct a smear campaign against him, based on a Muslim middle name, and possibly the colour of his skin.
Bubba, if you deny this, please prove to your own satisfaction that Abraham Lincoln, John Wayne, JFK, Alex Jones and Donald Trump were born in America. Then share your proof on this forum, explaining as you do how this same standard of proof does not apply to Obama.
Then you can explain why it never mattered until America had a black president whose middle name was Hussein.
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Bubba said:
They are not running for president except Trump. I think every candidate should be required to show that and more. Health, ideology, financial, etc. Level the field. While I'm at it....Clean elections. No big donors. Term limits. Background checks.
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You still haven't said what proof would satisfy you. None of what you posted there- health, ideology, financial etc.- is proof of nationality or place of birth.

Let me try again: what evidence would satisfy you that Donald Trump (I'll narrow this down to one person to keep it simple) is American? Have you looked into his background to determine to your satisfaction whether or not that standard of proof exists for Donald Trump? If not, why not? If you have, then can you apply the same to Obama? Trump is, as you have noted, running for president, whilst Barak Obama is not. It therefore seems to be much more important to determine the nationality of a possible future president, rather than one who is nearing the end of his term.
 
Bubba said:
Speculation:

If his globe trotting 1950s-1960s family were undercover agents, and if he were born elsewhere, they might want to put a birth notice in a local paper for advantages of US citizenship, and they'd know how to pull it off.
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There's not a shred of evidence that Obama's family was a "globe trotting 1950s-1960s family". International air travel was enormously expensive then. Obama, Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham were impecunious college students. Obama Sr. stayed in Hawaii during his whole course of study there, graduating in three years by attending summer sessions. In fact, Obama Jr. was born on the last day of Summer Session 1961 which Sr. attended.

You would have known this, had you done the slightest bit of research. Either you are a liar, or you are too lazy to research the facts. In either case, you lack all credibility. Goodnight, sir. :mad:
 
Bubba said:
So he has a birth certificate. Why didnt he just produce his birth certificate as soon as clamor rose, since it is in the constitution? He allowed that circus to go on and on. Weird, IMO, and thread-worthy as a sub-topic.
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There was never any "clamor" for a birth certificate. Ironically, producing the birth certificate was what made Birther Conspiracism go "viral". A writer at National Review who was trying to keep the 2008 campaign focused on actual issues and didn't want the GOP to make fools of themselves over things like a supposed Michelle Obama "Whitey" tape (remember that?) suggested that Obama release his BC to squelch stories like his "real" middle name being Mohammed.

The release of the BC had no effect other than to move Birthers to claim that it was a "forgery" and/or that the government of Hawaii was part of a Vast Conspiracy. So always with conspiracists. :rolleyes:

The best research on the history of the birthers was done by Georgia attorney Loren Collins.

Part one: http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/06/secret-origin-of-birthers.html

Part two: http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/06/secret-origin-part-2.html
 
Redwood said:
There was never any "clamor" for a birth certificate.
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Indeed, as this thread and its predecessor illustrate, the clamor was always over the birth certificate, involving increasingly desperate, elaborate, and farfetched theories for how it might have been forged and demanding new and ever escalating standards of proof for its authenticity that applied only to Obama. The reasons the conservative fringe gave for perpetuating the clamor never rose above mere speculative suspicion for which there was no credible evidence.

As usual, the conspiracy theorists had a highly inflated notion of the prima facie plausibility of their case. They somehow thought that their ability to imagine all sorts of preposterous forgery and collusion scenarios somehow justified whole new sets of requirements and rules and exceptions, "just to be sure."
 
JayUtah said:
As usual, the conspiracy theorists had a highly inflated notion of the prima facie plausibility of their case. They somehow thought that their ability to imagine all sorts of preposterous forgery and collusion scenarios somehow justified whole new sets of requirements and rules and exceptions, "just to be sure."
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An accurate and succinct summation of the whole folderol.
 
Guys, guys, guys, it's very simple.

Obama is a clone:



Of Osama bin Laden:

 
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Cosmic Yak said:
You still haven't said what proof would satisfy you. None of what you posted there- health, ideology, financial etc.- is proof of nationality or place of birth.

Let me try again: what evidence would satisfy you that Donald Trump (I'll narrow this down to one person to keep it simple) is American? Have you looked into his background to determine to your satisfaction whether or not that standard of proof exists for Donald Trump? If not, why not? If you have, then can you apply the same to Obama? Trump is, as you have noted, running for president, whilst Barak Obama is not. It therefore seems to be much more important to determine the nationality of a possible future president, rather than one who is nearing the end of his term.
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Why not require every job applicant to satisfy the requirement with a standard proof ie birth certificate and or whatever else does the trick.

Why not also apply it to the vice president candidates?
 
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Every job in the U.S. already requires proof of citizenship or right to work. The question is not whether someone should be required to prove his citizenship. The question is how far one should be made to go to do it. Obamia provided what, under any other circumstance, would be required to prove his citizenship. Then he went an extra step and produced his long-form certificate, which is not required in any other place or context in the U.S. where citizenship must be documented. Even with such an extraordinarily diligent production, Obama's critics invented whole new standards that allegedly made even that production insufficient and demanded a level of confirmation that is not only unnecessary but unlawful at present.

Doubt, in a legal context, must be reasonable and must be based on evidence and must be applied equally to all. The Birthers could not and cannot show that their doubt is reasonable. They cannot show it is, has been, or will be applied equally. They cannot show evidence that compels a reasonable person to doubt what has been produced.
 
Bubba said:
Why not require every job applicant to satisfy the requirement with a standard proof ie birth certificate and or whatever else does the trick.

Why not also apply it to the vice president candidates?
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What the hell do you think an I-9 is?
 
Bubba said:
Why not require every job applicant to satisfy the requirement with a standard proof ie birth certificate and or whatever else does the trick.

Why not also apply it to the vice president candidates?
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He did supply it. The very same certificate used to obtain a SS card or to obtain a passport. Twenty-something Republican secretaries-of-state found the provided documentation satisfactory enough to put B. Obama's name on the ballot in their states. That means that people who weren't satisfied were pinheaded enough to assume that a multi-state conspiracy among Republicans allowed Obama to get on the ballot with insufficient documentation. War hero John McCain even stated that Obama was eligible.

The idea that he wasn't eligible is so laughable that it is right and appropriate to label doubters as closed-minded chuckle-heads. Everyone who didn't accept the original documentation was either a closed-minded hyper-partisan, a self-serving attention whore (e.g. Trump), or a chuckle-headed bigot who feared either Obama's race or multi-religious upbringing. There is no point to try to soft sell it. By Inauguration Day, no reasonable person could have doubted the original evidence.
 
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So logger, how do you judge which is the real birth certificate? Much of what I've seen (if they have an opinion) on the internet is people judging it by their own prejudice. If it says he was born in Hawaii, it's fake, if it says he was born anywhere else, then it is real.

What say you?

Ranb
 
Ranb said:
So logger, how do you judge which is the real birth certificate? Much of what I've seen (if they have an opinion) on the internet is people judging it by their own prejudice. If it says he was born in Hawaii, it's fake, if it says he was born anywhere else, then it is real.

What say you?

Ranb
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I'm not really sure, just thought it interesting.
 
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