Merged Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion Part II

[halleyscomet]

No.

Why need set up such a strawman rather than acknowledge plausibility of a less fantastic scenario.

Speculation:

If his globe trotting 1950s-1960s family were undercover agents, and if he were born elsewhere, they might want to put a birth notice in a local paper for advantages of US citizenship, and they'd know how to pull it off.


I can imagine where it is a common practice in some 'communities' ie agencies where people regularly live and work abroad, especially where manipulating international events is part of the job.

At that point, faking birthplaces would practically be mere talk around the water cooler. Fake documentation is just one department in their business. Practically routine. Possible.
.

So you invoke an even more absurd conspiracy theory to defend Birtherism.

Birther nonsense CAN be discarded because there is NO evidence to support it. It's pure speculation that is, at this point, supported almost entirely by racists.

 

[LSSBB]

Sigh. There you go again. Flying off the handle......"So in 1961 you claim...". Sorry, no cigar.


Do not attempt to put words in my mouth. Dismantling your strawmen is tedious.


Did it occur to you there could be a less fantastic possibility?


I said '... Makes sense they would if he were born elsewhere. Why not start him off as American for its advantages? '.


On the other hand there is some cause to speculate that people like Dunham (related to some past presidents) might possibly entertain hopes for their progeny, as we are told Dunham's distant cousins include six U.S. presidents.





See above.

What do you guys think of how you tend to attempt to foist strawmen by trying to put words in someone's mouth, rather than face what is plausible?


I'm saying it is hardly a stretch to speculate that if his family were agents, they could reasonably want their son/grandson to be american born if he was not, and they would know how to get it done routinely in that line of work.


BTW, I cannot prove where he was born, no matter what anyone says. No one can prove beyond doubt where he was born.

As comforting as the Full Faith and Credit clause apparently may be for some, I cannot convince myself that it is immune to corruption. Who can ?
.

Ride it over the cliff. Just for the lulz.

 

[Hans]

No.
Speculation:

If his globe trotting 1950s-1960s family were undercover agents, and if he were born elsewhere, they might want to put a birth notice in a local paper for advantages of US citizenship, and they'd know how to pull it off.
.

A child born overseas of an American parent is an American unless they were planning to for the child to be president. However, I also believe courts have found that children born overseas of American parents are also eligible as was the Republican nominee in 2008. I was born overseas of American parents and I had no difficulties being considered an American becoming for a time a holder of a commission, top secret clearance, and working with nuclear weapons.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

If is the biggest word in the English language.

 

[JayUtah]

If is the biggest word in the English language.

Indeed, and this thread and its predecessor are ponderous in having already considered, tested, and rejected all the hare-brained speculation cooked up by Birthers for how it "could have been done." Again, if someone is going to pick a thread in which to do his customary trollish song and dance, best not to choose one where the actual issues have already been done to death. Hard to pretend it's about the issues in that case. Hard to write off your critics as poorly informed or disinterested.

 

[freeborn john]

No.

Why need set up such a strawman rather than acknowledge plausibility of a less fantastic scenario.

Speculation:

If his globe trotting 1950s-1960s family were undercover agents, and if he were born elsewhere, they might want to put a birth notice in a local paper for advantages of US citizenship, and they'd know how to pull it off.


I can imagine where it is a common practice in some 'communities' ie agencies where people regularly live and work abroad, especially where manipulating international events is part of the job.

At that point, faking birthplaces would practically be mere talk around the water cooler. Fake documentation is just one department in their business. Practically routine. Possible.
.

Pathetic

 

[kookbreaker]

Time for this again:

 

[Sabrina]

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, not this BS again.

 

[Bubba]

Come to think of it, speculation around the family being undercover due to their travels and activities is more interesting IMO than the birthplace thing.

 

[kookbreaker]

Let's speculate that they went to the Moon and Mars on the Magic School Bus. It makes more sense than anything the Birfers came up with.

 

[Hans]

Come to think of it, speculation around the family being undercover due to their travels and activities is more interesting IMO than the birthplace thing.

You do realize than any American who lived overseas could do that so you have a couple of million folks to be suspicious about so you can 'deep think' about that for quite some time.

As for Anthropologist being spies:

https://www.thenation.com/article/anthropologists-spies/

American's spying for America is not a conspiracy......

 

[Bubba]

Let's speculate that they went to the Moon and Mars on the Magic School Bus. It makes more sense than anything the Birfers came up with.

AFAIK the cia-ers are not the birthers. Smearing the former with the latter is noted.

I am not sure how anyone can claim to know for sure the family was not undercover.

 

[JayUtah]

AFAIK the cia-ers are not the birthers. Smearing the former with the latter is noted.

I am not sure how anyone can claim to know for sure the family was not undercover.

Are you claiming the family was undercover?

 

[Bubba]

Due to the nature of such things I dont see where anyone can know for sure whether or not the family was undercover.

 

[JayUtah]

Due to the nature of such things I dont see where anyone can know for sure whether or not the family was undercover.

Are you claiming the family was undercover? It's a simple question.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

BTW, I cannot prove where he was born, no matter what anyone says. No one can prove beyond doubt where he was born.

By which "logic" then, no American can prove where he or she was born. Strange how this argument is only applied to Obama, don't you think? It's almost as if people were trying to conduct a smear campaign against him, based on a Muslim middle name, and possibly the colour of his skin.
Bubba, if you deny this, please prove to your own satisfaction that Abraham Lincoln, John Wayne, JFK, Alex Jones and Donald Trump were born in America. Then share your proof on this forum, explaining as you do how this same standard of proof does not apply to Obama.
Then you can explain why it never mattered until America had a black president whose middle name was Hussein.

 

[Bubba]

By which "logic" then, no American can prove where he or she was born. Strange how this argument is only applied to Obama, don't you think? It's almost as if people were trying to conduct a smear campaign against him, based on a Muslim middle name, and possibly the colour of his skin.

I agree racism/bigotry motivates some birthers. I'd not agree that it motivates all birthers.

Bubba, if you deny this, please prove to your own satisfaction that Abraham Lincoln, John Wayne, JFK, Alex Jones and Donald Trump were born in America. Then share your proof on this forum, explaining as you do how this same standard of proof does not apply to Obama.

They are not running for president except Trump. I think every candidate should be required to show that and more. Health, ideology, financial, etc. Level the field. While I'm at it....Clean elections. No big donors. Term limits. Background checks.

Then you can explain why it never mattered until America had a black president whose middle name was Hussein.

Yes, racism surely for some. But other reasonable questions came after or before racism. Like how come we cant know more about his past, like school records?

So he has a birth certificate. Why didnt he just produce his birth certificate as soon as clamor rose, since it is in the constitution? He allowed that circus to go on and on. Weird, IMO, and thread-worthy as a sub-topic.

Then come doubts raised about family leading dual lives as in undercover.

 

[Hans]

So he has a birth certificate. Why didnt he just produce his birth certificate as soon as clamor rose, since it is in the constitution?

He did June 12, 2008 still not researching anything huh?

 

[JayUtah]

So he has a birth certificate. Why didnt he just produce his birth certificate as soon as clamor rose, since it is in the constitution?

He did, as you would have discovered by reading the thread.

He allowed that circus to go on and on.

Are you really claiming that it was Obama's fault the Birthers didn't believe the evidence he initially provided?

Then come doubts raised about family leading dual lives as in undercover.

You're the only one raising that "doubt." Are you claiming they were undercover?

 

[Bubba]

Not I.

By others, raised years ago which cannot be proven false.