Brexit: Now What? Part II

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Captain_Swoop said:
As for Terrys and Cadbury Chocolate, they were profitable companies sold out by their patriotic British shareholders, boards and CEOs to American companies to make a fast buck. Their demise as always with British industry has nothing to do with the EU and eveything to do with the Tory bastards that own them who would cut the throats of their own mothers if they thought it would make a profit.
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And just wait until they don't have to adhere to those "EU rules". Have you tasted USAian "chocolate"?
 
Airfix said:
I do.

I haven't discussed the economic policies of UKIP.
I am not a member of any political party.

I reserve the right to vote for any non racist party.
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Irrelevant, but carry on.....

Airfix said:
Again, you miss the point.
When it comes to the argument for leaving the EU they are in exactly the same boat as me.

And they have served the country brilliantly by helping bring about the in/out referendum.
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You seem to spend an awful lot of time and effort defending a right wing party (although IIRC in this thread's predecessor you claimed that they were not - an interesting minority viewpoint) who would otherwise run counter to your viewpoint.

Airfix said:
What do you want from me, a million word essay explaining everything about my views ?
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I was very active in left-wing student politics in the 1980's, please spare me.
 
The Don said:
This again ?

How many times does this nonsense have to be debunked in a single thread ?
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Debunked ?
Ok what did the EU do to stop the trafficking ?

http://www.unhcr.org/uk/news/latest...ean-death-toll-soars-first-5-months-2016.html

“Thus far 2016 is proving to be particularly deadly. Some 2,510 lives have been lost so far, compared to 1,855 in the same period in 2015.”

Over 2,510 lives lost so far this year and that's just at sea.

So what did the EU do to reduce deaths at sea ?
 
ddt said:
So let's look at those points..
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A good idea.

ddt said:
1) "The UK joined the European Union in 1973. Back then it was known as the Common Market".
No really, it wasn't. It was only nicknamed such in the UK, but in no other country. And the politicians of the day - there was also a referendum in 1975 - were very upfront about the vision that the EU would lead to ever tighter integration in all kind of aspects.
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Absolutely. It was the 'European Community' with a distinct federalist path to the 'United States of Europe'

ddt said:
2) "When we joined, there were just 9 member states".
Duh. And you didn't think even back then, in 1973, that Spain wouldn't join when Franco croaked, or Portugal when Salazar did, or Greece when the colonels were deposed, or Sweden, or Finland, or Austria just when they wanted, or that the Eastern European states would join after the fall of the Iron Curtain? Okay, the latter was a very distant prospect but all the other ones were very realistic short-term events.
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Of course those new members are diluting UKian influence. :rolleyes:

ddt said:
3) "More than half of the net migration of the UK comes from the EU".
So what? What's the point to this point? I'm really lost about this one. At least those immigrants are not dirty brown Muslim Pakis. :rolleyes:
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:)

ddt said:
4) "While we're in the EU, the UK can't make trade deals on our own".
Rejoice because if you would, you even couldn't as the current situation shows. The EU is ready to negotiate the Brexit, and you have to hire ex-colonials to help you out.
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:D

ddt said:
5) "The EU costs $350 million a week. That's enough to build a NHS hospital a week."
The Brexit vote is now what? 15 weeks ago. Where are those 15 hospitals? It's a ludicrous comparison and it says nothing about the benefits.
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It was a rather blatant lie that the idiots fell for.

ddt said:
6) "You don't have to be a member of the EU to trade with it. Switzerland is not in the EU and it exports more per person to the EU than we do."
Oooh, Switzerland is the alternative they want? Which has umpteen treaties with the EU which are all intertwined: violate one, you violate all. And which is already sanctioned for the 2014 referendum about restricting immigration?
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Again, facts don't work against the "fewer brown people" meme.

ddt said:
I also have to wonder about the claim that multinationals are pro-EU while SMEs are not. It is in fact the SMEs which profit most from being in the EU and thus cutting a lot of red tape. While a multinational can easily set up a department to deal with all the red tape, an SME cannot. See The Don for a concrete example.
Indeed.
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ddt said:
7) "EU law overrides UK law. This stops the British public from being able to vote out the politicians who make our laws."
You know that first one since 1973. And I think it's good. The second sentence is a bald-faced lie. Those EU laws are voted on by the EP, and you get to vote for the EP.
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Yep, and organisations like the ECHR (not EU but tarred withe that brush by Leavers) stops numerous UK government abuses.

ddt said:
8) "There are risks voting either way".
That's another bald-faced lie. You know what you have. You don't know what you get when you vote for Brexit. And this leaflet does not even provide a clear policy proposal. It suggests cutting immigration and then touts Switzerland as an alternative - a country that was at the very same time already sanctioned for doing that.
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And don't forget Switzerland is desperately trying to fix their little referendum problem.
 
The Don said:
I was very active in left-wing student politics in the 1980's, please spare me.
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Ah, the decade in which all the wrong lessons were learned. The result in the 1990's as a result of all these wrong lessons was New Labour.
Awful times.
 
The Don said:
In my case I find almost everything about the man objectionable; his political views, his "matey" persona, his rabble-rousing rhetoric, the list goes on.
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Ditto.

The Don said:
His views have always been presented with a nod and a wink to the mouth-breathing classes. Sure it'll be ability based (but we'll keep those darkies out) and it's not about stopping immigration, it's about controlling immigration (no more foreign accents in the high street)
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Exactly. I fixed your typo (Unless there really are people who deliberate inhale moths in Britain? Maybe in Norfolk?)

The Don said:
I would have been shocked, not least because the kinds of people who are opposed to Faraage and his ilk tend not to commit acts of violence like that - it's more of a "right-wing nutjob" move.
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Like Thomas Mair.
Maybe it's time for the return of the spirit of Cable Street?

The Don said:
OTOH Farage supporters would have been roaming the street looking for darkies to beat up.
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Given the upsurge of racial violence, abuse and threats post-Brexit I agree completely.
 
catsmate said:
So? You do remember the subtle and not-too-subtle emphasis on immigration (especially of brown people) complete with scare stories, exaggeration and outright lies?
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I think you'll find that even "brown people" can be concerned by the effect of mass uncontrolled immigration taking place without consideration of employment housing or healthcare provision.

You'd be surprised how many Indian people in the UK are concerned about EU migration.
 
Airfix said:
Why are you so desperate to smear and besmirch them ?
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I'm eager to ensure that people understand what UKIP actually stand for and how they go about gaining support so that people who may be tempted to support them because they think that UKIP will be a friend to the working classes think again

Instead they're an extreme right wing nationalist party like so many others who blame immigrants and foreigners for for the country's ills. They want a "free market" with all that entails for workers rights, employment protections and the environment.

They are climate change denialists with no concern for the planet's future and although they want to increase spending on the NHS, they want to make sure that the money is directed to the pockets of (largely US) corporations rather than to NHS employees.

That is why I'm so eager that people understand what UKIP really is.
 
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catsmate said:
Exactly. I fixed your typo (Unless there really are people who deliberate inhale moths in Britain? Maybe in Norfolk?)
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Thanks, though I can see the Forest of Dean (the only place that makes Norfolk look genetically diverse :p) from my house, so maybe it was a Freudian slip :D
 
Airfix said:
You'd be surprised how many Indian people in the UK are concerned about EU migration.
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You are of course right, racism is not confined to white people.

What a few of my Indian colleagues and acquaintances have to say about people from, Eastern Europe, Africa, Pakistan and Bangladesh would make a BNP supporter blush.
 
 
Airfix said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31796337

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37317765

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37196802

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/europe-forges-ahead-with-plans-for-eu-army/

There are those who want one big EU army.
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I don't care who wish what, I am only caring on facts. Facts is this is not about making a single army but cooperation between armies.

So rather than admit to the fact (no single army) you dish us some BS about somebody wishing for it.
 
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Airfix said:
He is honest. You just hate him so much your vision is impaired by prejudice.
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Sweet jeebus but you're in denial.
Look at his expenses "issues", his hypocrisy on tax avoidance, his lying about the supposed sabotage of his car, the arrest of his aide George Cottrell for fraud, his lies during the Bredit campaign (the NHS pledge was "a mistake"), the arrest of his aide Aaron Knight for child-sex offenses, his despicable "breaking point" poster, his reneging on his promise to release the details of his MEP expenses et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Oh, and as you brought up the UK fishing industry, are you aware that Farage, while sitting on the European Parliament Fisheries Committee failed to attend 41 out of 42 meetings? That on the three votes on amending the Common Fisheries Policy he failed to vote each time, despite being in the parliament building...
 
Airfix said:
Nazi imagery ? A photo from the Guardian used to illustrate that the EU's mismanagement of the refugee crisis is at "breaking point" and it's "Nazi imagery"?
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A blatant attempt to whip-up racist sentiment. One with remarkable similarities to that used by actual Nazis, not just the wannabes.

Airfix said:
The EU has done nothing to discourage trafficking.
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Complete rubbish.

Airfix said:
It has done nothing to provide alternative safe passage and thousands have died at sea and on land.
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Also untrue.
 
The Don said:
....and one where, when challenged during the referendum campaign, the best that the Leave advocate, and business representative, could come up with was an EU diktat that all chairs must have five legs*.


* - and they even got that wrong. As I understand it that relates to office chairs with a single central column, they should have at least five points of floor contact for stability reasons
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And a principle that predates the EU regulation.
 
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