Brexit: Now What? Part II

[McHrozni]

I passed City and Guilds 224 Electronic Servicing parts 1, 2 & 3 some years ago.

You should sue the school for giving you such inferior education then.

McHrozni

 

[Andy_Ross]

You should sue the school for giving you such inferior education then.

McHrozni

Not really fair, he says 'some years ago' Things move on.
My dad has masses of qualifications and experience in marine engineering, he has Chief Engineers tickets for both steam and motir but he retired years ago and he would find it difficult in a modern engine room.

 

[catsmate]

If rare earths like Neodynium were not available would you rule out other types of magnets ?

Sigh. Powerful rare earth magnets are far stronger than ferrite or alnico. This has enabled many technologies, from high capacity hard drives to compact earbuds, from highly efficient generators and motors to debris removal. They are critical to numerous modern devices and cannot simply be replaced by other, less efficient, magnets.

Induction of electricity can be done with various different materials. We should consider all options.

And you should Do The Research before making blithe assertions.

If we only get half the electricity from a generator that a Neodynium magnet based generator can produce, it's still more electricity than if we do not build it. We can always build more generators.

Really? Did you read this sentence? You "alternative" would mean either far less energy (with all the consequent problems to society) or require vastly more generation capacity, fossil fuel consumption et cetera.

There also needs to be a greater proliferation of solar electrical generation in the world.

Solar energy is not a magic wand. It's an expensive, resource hungry and unreliable energy source of limited utility.

 

[catsmate]

iPhone 7 most expensive Apple smartphone ever as pre-orders begin
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/apple-smartphone-iphone-7-pre-orders


Hitting the generations which voted disproportionately to Remain.

There'll be some tense family moments across the country over Xmas, I'll be bound. Fortunately mine are all Remainers, so we can spend the time slagging off the neighbours. Good bonding stuff.

Meh, if they're stupid enough to buy Apple they deserve what they get.

 

[catsmate]

Liam Fox is clearly confident about Britain's ability to compete abroad:

The same person who supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, opposes legal abortion, supports military action against Iran, opposes same-sex marriage, wants to effectively destroy the NHS, and rents out his London home while claiming expenses to live at another residence?
I suspect May's setting him up and he's greedy, arrogant and stupid enough to fall for it.

So as has been pointed out, it's all about empire building and infighting.

It seems May's plan, to have her enemies destroy each other, is working well.

 

[abaddon]

I passed City and Guilds 224 Electronic Servicing parts 1, 2 & 3 some years ago.

There are numerous ways of manufacturing motors and generators.

Rare Earth elements are the superior magnets but they are not the only magnets.

With a ferrite ceramic magnet there is less flux, so there is less power generated. But there is still flux from a ceramic ferrite magnet so electricity can still be induced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rL3X3NsZLc

How strong would the magnets have to be to provide a localised generator for a street (for example) ?

I taught 224 parts 1 2 and 3. I know how useless it is. The idea that such a basic course would provide any insight or expertise is risible. Myself and my fellow lecturers termed it "remedial".

 

[Aepervius]

Airfix, really with a bit of thinking you would immediately see there is a problem with giving up rare earth. Heck a bit of research would be enough that western world company *crave* an alternative to rare earth material and research solution for that. And yet post after post you demonstrated that you did not research the issue, proposing that we use the old-school alternative.

Why the heck do you think we switched (for some application) from old school magnet to rare earth one ?

It really puts also under question all your other assumptions and estimate of what will happen, if you are not able to research something as simple as to why we use neodymium magnet in the first place : yes Neodymium magnets Remanence which are near or only slightly superior to alnico/ferrite, but compare alnico or ferrite magnet coercivity and energy product and you will see that engineering a replacement is as far as trivial as you can be, if the applications requires those values.

 

[McHrozni]

Not really fair, he says 'some years ago' Things move on.
My dad has masses of qualifications and experience in marine engineering, he has Chief Engineers tickets for both steam and motir but he retired years ago and he would find it difficult in a modern engine room.

This hasn't moved in the past few decades tho.

McHrozni

 

[Craig B]

The same person who supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, opposes legal abortion, supports military action against Iran, opposes same-sex marriage, wants to effectively destroy the NHS, and rents out his London home while claiming expenses to live at another residence?
I suspect May's setting him up and he's greedy, arrogant and stupid enough to fall for it.


It seems May's plan, to have her enemies destroy each other, is working well.

Again, this seems less probable than that May in fact approves of people such as Liam Fox, and that is why she appointed him Secretary of State for international trade. I don't think she considers him an enemy to be destroyed, but an ally to be sustained and rewarded.

 

[CapelDodger]

Again, this seems less probable than that May in fact approves of people such as Liam Fox, and that is why she appointed him Secretary of State for international trade. I don't think she considers him an enemy to be destroyed, but an ally to be sustained and rewarded.

The Sunday politics shows could be lively. On Monday we'll discover if Fox has May's complete confidence (hanging by a thread) or her absolute confidence (toast).

Whatever, he's queered his pitch with the golf-club set something 'orrible.

 

[CapelDodger]

Meh, if they're stupid enough to buy Apple they deserve what they get.

Hey, I'm not suggesting I sympathise. I'm just struck by the symbolism.

All the crap from this is falling on the group that least wanted it. And Airfix keeps going on about 17m people on that day : by the time it goes through the demographic imperative dictates that the tiny Leave majority will have been wiped out. But apparently democracy means all those 16 and 17 years-old on that day, who will by then be of voting age, must not be allowed to have a say.

If I was one of them I'd be frickin' livid. Pardon French.

I feel slightly better for that ...

 

[CapelDodger]

Induction of electricity can be done with various different materials. We should consider all options.

What do you think people have been doing since Faraday?

We don't use rare earths because they sound exotic. You may be confusing them with lapis lazuli.

 

[catsmate]

What do you think people have been doing since Faraday?

We don't use rare earths because they sound exotic. You may be confusing them with lapis lazuli.

Exactly. Airfix doesn't seem to understand the importance of new magnetic materials and how pervasive and important they are; something which, given I studied under this chap, I find rather irritating.

 

[CapelDodger]

Exactly. Airfix doesn't seem to understand the importance of new magnetic materials and how pervasive and important they are; something which, given I studied under this chap, I find rather irritating.

Strap me. I did my 6th Form at Tonbridge. Pure Maths, Applied Maths, Advanced Maths, Physics, darts and bar billiards.

Then got the hell out of Kent the first chance I got.

 

[Airfix]

Airfix, really with a bit of thinking you would immediately see there is a problem with giving up rare earth.

Of course there would be. I entirely accept that Rare Earth magnets are the best.
But there are generators and dynamos which have worked without them.
And when they're not available the laws of induction still work with other types of magnets.

I don't think that rare Earth magnets were available when they built Drax Power Station and Drax provides 7% of the UK's electricity.

So if needs must and new Rare Earths either were unavailable to import or too expensive to provide affordable generators, other ways can be found. Those ways are not as good and there is less power output. But there is still power output.

If the alternative generates 10% of the power and you build and sell thousand less efficient generators in place of one expensive more efficient generator, you still have more megawatts generated.

We have an opportunity as a manufacturing country to sell generators to countries that do not make their own, whether those generators have Rare Earths in them or not.

However, scrap hard drives contain Rare Earths and recycling scrap is not a bad idea.

There are ways with and there are ways without.

But we need to consider as a manufacturing economy, manufacturing environmentally friendly energy generation systems and selling them to countries which do not natively make their own.

 

[Airfix]

Exactly. Airfix doesn't seem to understand the importance of new magnetic materials

Of course I understand the importance.

But if you don't have them to hand and do have a lesser magnet to hand, it is still possible to generate electricity and that is my point.
Do you understand that point ?

 

[Airfix]

What do you think people have been doing since Faraday?

That is my point.

 

[Klimax]

I passed City and Guilds 224 Electronic Servicing parts 1, 2 & 3 some years ago.

There are numerous ways of manufacturing motors and generators.

Rare Earth elements are the superior magnets but they are not the only magnets.

With a ferrite ceramic magnet there is less flux, so there is less power generated. But there is still flux from a ceramic ferrite magnet so electricity can still be induced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rL3X3NsZLc

How strong would the magnets have to be to provide a localised generator for a street (for example) ?

But only few are good for high value items like computers (harddrives and speakers, or EVs. They might no be only, but alternatives are not usable everywhere.

ETA: Looks like everybody covered it anyway...

 

[CapelDodger]

That is my point.

Then you didn't have one.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Of course there would be. I entirely accept that Rare Earth magnets are the best.
But there are generators and dynamos which have worked without them.
And when they're not available the laws of induction still work with other types of magnets.

I don't think that rare Earth magnets were available when they built Drax Power Station and Drax provides 7% of the UK's electricity.

So if needs must and new Rare Earths either were unavailable to import or too expensive to provide affordable generators, other ways can be found. Those ways are not as good and there is less power output. But there is still power output.

If the alternative generates 10% of the power and you build and sell thousand less efficient generators in place of one expensive more efficient generator, you still have more megawatts generated.

We have an opportunity as a manufacturing country to sell generators to countries that do not make their own, whether those generators have Rare Earths in them or not.

However, scrap hard drives contain Rare Earths and recycling scrap is not a bad idea.

There are ways with and there are ways without.

But we need to consider as a manufacturing economy, manufacturing environmentally friendly energy generation systems and selling them to countries which do not natively make their own.

Problem is other people are making better products that are more commercially viable. You are trying to sell Ladas to BMW buyers. This coupled with your rover and bhs stuff suggests you have absolutely zero commercial nouse. Which would explain why you think brexit might be good for the economy.