Brexit: Now What? Part II

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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
If you include the EEA option you should include the 'stay in the EU option' for completeness.
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No, because that particular option was ruled out by 17.41m voters in June.
What would be the the point in referendums or elections if the politicians stopped listening ?
 
Airfix said:
Rare earth elements are not the only materials that can be used to make magnets. Ordinary ferrite cores can work.
And isn't there rather a lot of scrap iron and scrap steel around that could be recycled ?
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You cannot simply substitute iron for rare earths in electrical/electronic products. The idea is utterly ludicrous.
 
catsmate said:
You cannot simply substitute iron for rare earths in electrical/electronic products. The idea is utterly ludicrous.
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If rare earths like Neodynium were not available would you rule out other types of magnets ?
I certainly would not. Scrap steel aluminium copper and cobalt can be used to manufacture Alnico magnets which were and still sometimes are used as magnets for guitar pickups.
Induction of electricity can be done with various different materials. We should consider all options.

We are living through an energy crisis.

If we only get half the electricity from a generator that a Neodynium magnet based generator can produce, it's still more electricity than if we do not build it. We can always build more generators.

There also needs to be a greater proliferation of solar electrical generation in the world.
 
Airfix said:
No, because that particular option was ruled out by 17.41m voters in June.
What would be the the point in referendums or elections if the politicians stopped listening ?
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And those same people dont want the EEA either as I thought we had already agreed.
 
Airfix said:
If rare earths like Neodynium were not available would you rule out other types of magnets ?
I certainly would not. Scrap steel aluminium copper and cobalt can be used to manufacture Alnico magnets which were and still sometimes are used as magnets for guitar pickups.
Induction of electricity can be done with various different materials. We should consider all options.

We are living through an energy crisis.

If we only get half the electricity from a generator that a Neodynium magnet based generator can produce, it's still more electricity than if we do not build it. We can always build more generators.

There also needs to be a greater proliferation of solar electrical generation in the world.
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Between this and the nationalise bhs nonsense im starting to think you are at the windup.

Not doing much to dismiss the notion that leavers are deluded.
 
Alnico magnets are used in some electrical products.
Ceramic magnets are also used.

Faraday's law of induction does not depend on rare Earths like neodymium-iron-boron (NdFeB) or Samarium Cobalt (SmCo).
I'm not arguing that it won't work better with a rare Earth, but were one is not readily available, use something else which IS.

Besides, the thermal properties of Ceramic magnets (and there is the aspect of friction to consider here), is better than NdFeB.
Ferrite ceramic magnets have a Tmax of 300 degrees Celsius, NdFeB magnets have a Tmax of 150 degrees Celsius.

What's deluded about that ?

As well as magnetic flux, the rate of magnetic change in the coils & the number of coils are also factors in electromagnetic induction.

Electro-magnetic induction can be done with a lot of magnetic materials if push came to shove.
.....
Btw, nationalising a business and returning it to profit to be returned to the private sector at a later date was done with banks.
So why not temporarily nationalise BHS to return it to profit and save the jobs of 11,000 people ?
It's not their fault that management drained the company, took it into debt and stopped advertising.
 
Airfix said:
If rare earths like Neodynium were not available would you rule out other types of magnets ?
I certainly would not. Scrap steel aluminium copper and cobalt can be used to manufacture Alnico magnets which were and still sometimes are used as magnets for guitar pickups.
Induction of electricity can be done with various different materials. We should consider all options.

We are living through an energy crisis.

If we only get half the electricity from a generator that a Neodynium magnet based generator can produce, it's still more electricity than if we do not build it. We can always build more generators.

There also needs to be a greater proliferation of solar electrical generation in the world.
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Sorry, but their properties won't be good enough. If companies could replace rare earth minerals already, they would do so. They are expensive and located in not so friendly or good countries. Chinese already used them in various political maneuvers and economical incentives like making them available almost only to Chinese companies. (There was recent WTO ruling against China...)

Like on many other things you are terminally clueless on subject of electronics. You are lucky it is not literally terminal...
 
The Don said:
I agree 100% that the UK will be completely unprepared for Brexit and that the process of leaving the EU will be a shambles but I don't think it will carry much political risk for Theresa May herself.

Any problems with the process can be blamed on some combination of Johnson, Fox and Davis and any problem with the result can be blamed on the intransigence of the EU (and not the UK's failure to negotiate well) and any trade deal outside the EU - no matter how bad - will be paraded as a huge victory.

The Labour Party's ambivalent attitude towards the EU means that it cannot be a "pro-EU" opposition, the Lib Dems are likely to be damaged from the coalition for a few years yet, the SNP will continue to sweep Scotland but are a regional party - the Conservatives are IMO certain to be the largest party in the event of an out-out-out decision because they will sweep up a lot of UKIP supporters.

In the event of an out-out-out Brexit, IMO Theresa May will emerge from the subsequent election in a strong position with a fractured opposition and a largely united Conservative Party.
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Agree with all of this.

One thing that is becoming clearer is that there are multiple divides within the EU (eg North v South on economics, East v West on refugees, EU commission v countries etc) and that there will be significant battles to decide who speaks for Europe. It was never even clear that Cameron's renegotiated terms would get through the European Parliament.

This means that a hard exit is quite likely, even though sub-optimal for both sides, as there is no clear path to a better deal acceptable to all.
 
Craig B said:
May is evidently at ease with extremely reactionary policies. She likes them, and she is in sympathy with the minds who propose them. She wants Brexit to succeed, and she wants its supporters to vote for her in 2020: she is now offering them "good" schools, where they will secure selective education for their children.
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I think you may be mis-reading May as reactionary; she seems more concerned about encouraging social mobility and may do some radical things to achieve it.
 
Klimax said:
Like on many other things you are terminally clueless on subject of electronics.
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I passed City and Guilds 224 Electronic Servicing parts 1, 2 & 3 some years ago.

There are numerous ways of manufacturing motors and generators.

Rare Earth elements are the superior magnets but they are not the only magnets.

With a ferrite ceramic magnet there is less flux, so there is less power generated. But there is still flux from a ceramic ferrite magnet so electricity can still be induced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rL3X3NsZLc

How strong would the magnets have to be to provide a localised generator for a street (for example) ?
 
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Aber said:
I think you may be mis-reading May as reactionary; she seems more concerned about encouraging social mobility and may do some radical things to achieve it.
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I have to say that I think the "we're doing all his to provide disadvantaged children with the best possible standard of education" is a ploy intended to disguise her real purpose, which is to throw a treat to the right wing of her Party, which dotes on selective education.

In like manner, Thatcher claimed to be supporting the most disadvantaged sections of the population with her various economic measures, but you would need to be a fool to imagine that that was her true motive.
 
Ordinary industrial motors and generators don't use rare earth magnets. They use electromagnets so mostly just plain old iron, copper, some cobalt - nothing very exotic.

Rare earths make excellent strong permanent magnets - these are great in earphones, hard disks, and small powerful motors that often run from battery power - but you don't really want or need permanent magnets in the sorts of larger motors and generators that operate with AC mains power.
 
iPhone 7 most expensive Apple smartphone ever as pre-orders begin
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/apple-smartphone-iphone-7-pre-orders

Apple’s iPhone 7 has gone on pre-order around the world, but customers in the UK have woken up to a very real-world impact of the Brexit referendum: the iPhone 7 as well as the iPad line is more expensive than ever.

...

While the base-level 4.7in iPhone 7 now has twice the storage, at 32GB, of the starting iPhone 6S from 2015, it also rose in price by £40, costing buyers £599 without a mobile phone contract. The US price of the iPhone 7 remained steady at $649.
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Hitting the generations which voted disproportionately to Remain.

There'll be some tense family moments across the country over Xmas, I'll be bound. Fortunately mine are all Remainers, so we can spend the time slagging off the neighbours. Good bonding stuff.
 
Airfix said:
No, because that particular option was ruled out by 17.41m voters in June.
What would be the the point in referendums or elections if the politicians stopped listening ?
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Isn't that business as usual for most politicians? Most politicians will do whatever is expedient at any point to get elected, so the nearer we get to 2020 the more the Brexit strategy and the next political manifestos will be the usual mixture of whatever is best for any political party to win as many seats as possible in the election.
 
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Aber said:
I think you may be mis-reading May as reactionary; she seems more concerned about encouraging social mobility and may do some radical things to achieve it.
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Like adopting the standard Conservative approach of marching boldly back to the 1950s....

Depending on which study you read, grammar schools are of marginal value in increasing social mobility and may reduce it. Once you're in a grammar school the difference in attainment between rich and poor may be lower (it's not certain and even from the most favourable studies looks like there is still a significant difference), getting into a grammar school is far more difficult for the poor.

It IS however an effective way of giving the middle-classes a pseudo-private education without them having to put their hands in their pockets.
 
Well, they have to pay for the extra home schooling needed to prepare for the exam.
In areas like Kent where there are Grammar School systems those that get in come overwhelmingly from middle class backgrounds and have had extra tuition on passing the 11+ exam.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Well, they have to pay for the extra home schooling needed to prepare for the exam.
In areas like Kent where there are Grammar School systems those that get in come overwhelmingly from middle class backgrounds and have had extra tuition on passing the 11+ exam.
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True, but a few hundred (or thousand) pounds spent on coaching is a hell of a lot cheaper than £10k-£20k a year per child

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33535216
 
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Aber said:
I think you may be mis-reading May as reactionary; she seems more concerned about encouraging social mobility and may do some radical things to achieve it.
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Nearly choked on my weetabix there. Good one.

ceptimus said:
Ordinary industrial motors and generators don't use rare earth magnets. They use electromagnets so mostly just plain old iron, copper, some cobalt - nothing very exotic.

Rare earths make excellent strong permanent magnets - these are great in earphones, hard disks, and small powerful motors that often run from battery power - but you don't really want or need permanent magnets in the sorts of larger motors and generators that operate with AC mains power.
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Normal industrial generators use plain old steel and copper. Wind generators nowadays use PM generators because the old style are less efficient and had shorter lives in turbines. I think they are also smaller but the main difference is they dont need a gearbox so you dont need to maintain them so much and less gubbins to wrong.

So yes you can and do get these old style turbines but they arent the latest tech and you wouldnt start a business building them today. It would be like gping back to using floppy disks or old style lightbulbs.

Probably a few leavers would say those are good ideas as well mind you.
 
Liam Fox is clearly confident about Britain's ability to compete abroad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37324491

Britain is "too lazy and too fat" with businessmen preferring "golf on a Friday afternoon" rather than contributing to the country's prosperity, Liam Fox has said
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Wouldn't we therefore be better off in a cozy EEA that being thrown to the wolves of international free trade :rolleyes:

Liam Fox is a sponger and has never done a "real" day's work in his life..


edited to add (from that same article).....

The comments follow his letter to Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, which was leaked to the press, suggesting British trade would not flourish unless the Foreign Office was reduced to a department focused only on diplomacy and security.
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So as has been pointed out, it's all about empire building and infighting.
 
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