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Merged Dakota Access Pipeline

marplots said:
I'd probably move some graves first, but yes. The needs of the living outweigh the needs of the dead.
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That would be fine, except the pipeline does not best, if at all, meet the needs of the living - unless they happen to need an environmental disaster or several..........
 
Oh, and apparently, graves being undisturbed tends to meet the needs of an awful lot of people!!!!! Not just Indians.
 
crescent said:
What if they bulldozed the graves before you had a chance to move them? What if it was clear they did that on purpose, so they would not need to move them?
Would you be, perhaps, a bit upset?

Because that is exactly what happened here.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Or someone needs to review the reservation treaty and laws governing Indian burial grounds because those are indeed 21st century laws.
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NoahFence said:
This situation is indefensible. Don't bother.
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It's not like there are two sides to the story... It's so convenient when there is only one.

Dakota Access' developers needed approval under a different process. Tribal leaders say didn't get a chance to provide their input.

Federal officials and Dakota Access developers Standing Rock had a chance to survey the pipeline's route, but the tribe declined.

"The Corps followed procedure in this case when it actively worked to engage with the plaintiffs, the Standing Rock Sioux," federal lawyer Matthew Marinelli told Judge Boasberg last week.

North Dakota Petroleum Council spokeswoman Tessa Sandstrom told The Hillthe project is important economically for the state.
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http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016...over-North-Dakota-oil-pipeline/7191472404127/
 
marplots said:
It's not like there are two sides to the story... It's so convenient when there is only one.
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I agree. The Standing Rock Sioux tribal chairman made clear during an interview with a CNN affiliate that they would oppose and try to block any alternative route or method of getting the resource to markets, which kind of throws out the idea that this is about sacred burial grounds and important sites...which were discovered by the band after they had decided they had to stop this project.

As the tribal chairman said this is about respect and "Nation to Nation" in which respect apparently means that one Nation can tell another that they can't develop their resources.

I think that it sucks and is disgusting that we are building pipelines in 2016. But that is the decision we have made over the past 25 years when we decided to try to solve the climate change problem with fairy tales and hippie drum circles, instead of accurately assessing the means we currently had as well as putting a lot of money into technological innovation (the percentage of energy consumption from carbon-free sources worldwide increased from 6% to 13% in the 18 years before climate change became the green moral issue, and has increased from 13% to 13% in the 25 years since we decided to follow the eco-radical agenda). Hopefully that is about to change, but regardless we are going to need fossil fuels for a long time to come.
 
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EHocking said:
Yes - stop building roads in North Dakota too.
Take away their vehicles and give them all horses.
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Then everyone can wake up every morning with a fine layer of horse **** dust on their furniture. Wooo hoo! Back to the good old days when everything was decidedly organic!
 
marplots said:
Someone's fear of a possible accident shouldn't outgun actual professional engineers designing this stuff.

If there is a spill, then the Indians can sue to recover, not before.
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Ah, the good old, "Ask for forgiveness rather than permission" type of deal. Always a substantial argument. Instead of preventing damage to things you need to *********** live, like water, just wait until some of you die off. Then the survivors, if there are any, can sue to have the pipeline...what? Exactly? Dug back up? Maybe they can get some money for whatever the lawsuit dictates their loved ones were worth? That's some awesome stuff right there. The true, ****** American way of dealing with stuff like this.

Plus, it's not a fear of a possible accident. It's a fear of an inevitable accident. They're 2 different things. Unless of course you can find me a pipeline that has never leaked, or spilled. I don't give a **** about the engineers. They aren't the ones that have to live here. They can, personally, **** right off if they get butthurt. All of them.

marplots said:
Land worship is stupidly pagan and an embarrassment to educated Native Americans. If some subset of Luddite Indians don't want to drive or use electricity, that's fine. We allow the Amish to exist. But otherwise, we should clue them in to where that gasoline comes from.
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Your opinion is just that. The opinion of an anonymous voice on the internet. Whether you think what they're doing is right, wrong or the other means nothing. It's not up to you to decide what these people believe or don't believe. Just like no one is here telling you that your ideas are stupid or outdated. Your presumption that the 18,000+ Native Americans that are out there are "uneducated" should show the ridiculousness of your argument.

Lastly, gasoline doesn't have to come from this pipeline. We've got a ton of pipelines going through the US. This pipeline doesn't help the state, the Native American people, or *********** anyone else except those that are making money off of it.

P.S. We don't "allow" people to exist. Seriously, what the hell?
 
EHocking said:
Yes - stop building roads in North Dakota too.
Take away their vehicles and give them all horses.
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I don't know about that last part. As all the horses in the Americas went extinct about 13,000 years ago, these current invasive pests from Europe are a blight on the land and should probably not be allowed.
 
You do know this oil is not for US consumption. It will be going overseas to feed other countries obsessive oil use. But lets tear up the US countryside to get this done.
 
EHocking said:
Yes - stop building roads in North Dakota too.
Take away their vehicles and give them all horses.
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Yeah, that will show those ungrateful Lakota! Remind them how crappy things were before the white people made life so awesome.
 
KatieG said:
You do know this oil is not for US consumption. It will be going overseas to feed other countries obsessive oil use. But lets tear up the US countryside to get this done.
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Nonsense. All, or almost all, of this oil is for domestic consumption. As the US currently imports half of the oil it needs for consumption, and as it uses more oil per capita then almost any other country in the world, claims that it will feed other countries obsessive oil use are laughable.
 
Federal Judge denies motion to halt work on Dakota Access Pipeline.

A federal judge Friday denied a Native American tribe's request for a temporary restraining order to halt construction on the controversial Dakota Access Pipeline. U.S. District Judge James E. Boasberg wrote in his decision that the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe failed to show "it will suffer injury that would be prevented by any injunction the Court could issue."...
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/us/dakota-access-pipeline/index.html
 
Nakani said:
Yeah, that will show those ungrateful Lakota! Remind them how crappy things were before the white people made life so awesome.
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Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Indians on the warpath never works. Indians in court at least has a chance.
 
CNN: "Protesters physically assaulted private security officers hired by Dakota Access Pipeline. The security officers were hit and jabbed with fence posts and flagpoles," the sheriff's department said. "According to several reports from security officers, knives were pulled on them or they witnessed protestors with large knives."

The sheriff's department also said two guard dogs were injured.

But protesters disputed that account, CNN affiliate KFYR said. Demonstrators said the guards used pepper spray and tear gas on the activists, and some protesters were injured by the guards' dogs.
 
marplots said:
Sacred lands? Gimme a break. Someone needs to introduce these indians to the 21st century.
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I always interpret "sacred lands" to mean "not enough money has been tossed our way yet".
 
marplots said:
Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Indians on the warpath never works. Indians in court at least has a chance.
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Not sure what this has to do with my post? I was making fun of EHocking's lame idea to teach the Lakota (Indians live in India Btw.) a lesson.

I think they have learned from history and know that anything white people put on paper is worthless. The best way to stop the pipeline is to physically stop it.
 
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