General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[LeoMajor]

You didn't read what I said:

"They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me? "

I said NOTHING about the trials or judges. I said PLACES where we try to have free speech...agreed or disagree? This is a PLACE, FACEBOOK is a PLACE, My town NEWSPAPER ONLINE is a PLACE. the Public libraries are a PLACE, my local TV STATION is a PLACE, ALL places where either my free speech has been banned or seriously curtailed because of a certain group of people that have a six pointed star/. I could go on and on

As someone who lives in Canada, I can tell you that your theories about "evil Jews" are incorrect. There are no Jews in the current Cabinet, none of our Prime Ministers have ever been Jewish, there is only one Jew in the SCC, the President of the CBC, our largest media company, is not a Jew. I could go on all day.

Quick question: If someone at Dunkin' Doughnuts screws up your order, do you assume that Dunkin' Doughnuts is run by Jews?

 

[Ivanesca]

If they had a bad experience personally, then expect a vindictive testimony. With a lot of the holohoax narratives a LOT of people explained how well they were taken care of. They speak of playing soccer, taking part in the orchestras surrounding the camps, putting on plays, getting a piano to play for the children, the list goes on and on.

Yes, they did. And at the same time, they also described Gas chambers, shooting, and inhumane working conditions. IIRC Oscar Strawzcynsky talked about all three and also mentioned "decent" or "fair" Germans he got along with. No one swept these under the rug: Strawczynsky testified about these openly in the Treblinka trial. Statements like these show that the survivors aren't making things up or vindictive. If they did they would've described a uniform picture of constant oppression instead of some shades of grey. Their describing of the things you mentioned illustrates that they gave nuanced, reasonable accounts instead of demonizing a and therefore "making things up".

 

[Ivanesca]

The problem is those testimonies are shoved under the rug because they don't fit the death camps stories. Babies being born in Auschwitz? Not in you life,

Nonsense. These topics are covered in histories of the camps. In context.

Kurt Vonnegut was admittedly not a historian, but in Mother Night he does indeed talk about children born in Auschwitz. Naturally, he also tackled topics like the Sonderkommando and Gas chambers. Like you said, it's in context. Mother Night was first Published in 1961. Given that Vonnegut was a famous, respected author, you really can't say this topic was "swept under the rug".

HDenier should know that Dresden Survivor Kurt Vonnegut got into trouble for quoting David Irving's exaggerated Dresden death toll. Even so, he had enough sense to see the context and nuance that HDenier fails to understand. Vonnegut>>HDenier/Rizoli.

 

[threadworm]

You didn't read what I said:

"They control most of these places where we try to have free speech....Are you going to disagree with me? "

I said NOTHING about the trials or judges. I said PLACES where we try to have free speech...agreed or disagree? This is a PLACE, FACEBOOK is a PLACE, My town NEWSPAPER ONLINE is a PLACE. the Public libraries are a PLACE, my local TV STATION is a PLACE, ALL places where either my free speech has been banned or seriously curtailed because of a certain group of people that have a six pointed star/. I could go on and on

And yet here you are, posting your racist bigotry without anyone deleting it.

 

[abaddon]

Still unable to answer simple questions?

Why do responsible people have CO alarms fitted in their homes? The are not gastight and have windows.

According to you, CO poisoning should therefore be impossible.

So why do people do it?

 

[Degeneve]

Actually no I'm doing what you guys do just present information with no backup...LOL
I figure if the HoloHuxsters here can say like Gerstein said 40 million Jews died, and there were 120 ft pile high of clothing in Trebstinka, with the 75 ft pile high of shoes why not make a quote that if floating around somewhere.
I'm sure you trust me that it is out there....

JR

Gerstein's testimony contains some exaggerations or inaccuracies. Even the historians admit this. However the fact that he has attended a gassing is corroborated by another testimony of Pfannenstiel who was there the same day. Even if Pfannestiel disagrees on some of the figures provided by Gerstein, he does not refute that a gassing has taken place.

Here is the comment provided by the historian Christopher Browning during the court case Irving v. Lipstadt:

Many aspects of Gerstein's testimony are unquestionably problematic. Several statements he attributes to Globocnik are clearly exagerrated or false, and it is not clear whether Gerstein or Globocnik was the faulty source. In other statements, such as the height of the piles of shoes and clothing at Belzec and Treblinka, Gerstein himself is clearly the source of exaggeration. Gerstein also added grossly exaggerated claims about matters to which he was not an eyewitness, such as that a total of 25 million Jews and others were gassed. But in the essential issue, namely that he was in Belzec and witnessed the gassing of a transport of Jews from Lwow, his testimony is fully corroborated by Pfannenstiel. It is also corroborated by other categories of witnesses from Belzec. (Source: http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/browning/541.html)

 

[Degeneve]

HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TREBSTINKA LIAR?

There is much more to the article but I don't want to offend the copyright police....LOL

He must of been on the same hallucinogenic drugs as Kurt Gerstein...LOL

Here is a snipit of the main nonsense he was quoted saying....
Franz Stangl, the former commandant of the camp at Treblinka in Poland who was sentenced to life imprisonment in December 1970. These were published in an article by the London Daily Telegraph Magazine, October 8th, 1971, and were supposed to derive from a series of interviews with Stangl in prison. "The account reaches the heights of absurdity when Stangl is alleged to have got out of his car and "stepped kneedeep into money.....

I waded in papernotes, currency, precious stones, jewellery and clothes. They were everywhere, strewn all over the square." The scene is completed by "whores from Warsaw weaving drunk, dancing, singing, playing music", who were on the other side of the barbed wire fences.

I'm sure the HoloHuxsters will believe this one....LOL

JR

The full testimoy of Stangl has been published by the interviewer, Gitta Sereny Under the title "Into That Darkness: from Mercy Killing to Mass Murder, a study of Franz Stangl, the commandant of Treblinka" (https://books.google.ch/books?id=ntgT48CY1wwC&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y )

Very interesting book as it shows, among other, how the people who were in charge of the Aktion T4 (i.e. the mass-Killing of the diaabled) were afterwards emploed for carrying out the Operation Reinhard (i.e. the mass murder o of the Polish Jews).

 

[Degeneve]

Can you imagine anyone of these Jewish Workers getting holocaust reparations today for their part in killing their own people? How embarrassing.

Can you imaging them being in the same room with people giving their testimonies and then realize that THEY the Jewish workers were responsible for getting partial payment for the deaths of their family members, stripping their bodies, getting the gold out of their teeth?
Wow, how would you as a Jew feel about that on both sides of the holocaust victim hood? Both are so called holohoax victims. Hey, you holohaox skeptics claim these stories are true.....I don't...and as much as I would love too use them as FACTUAL HAPPENINGS these stories to me are nonsense.

IF they are true then it tells me how low these "Jewish workers" went to service their own lives over the lives of their fellow Jewish people. ALL these "Jewish Workers" then should be put to death or go to jail. They should NOT be getting ANY monies to so called victims of the holohoax.

You got an embarrassing dilemma here hoaxers? Either the story is TRUE or you have people, "Jewish Workers" participating and part of the most gruesome immoral diabolical killings ever and they are getting paid reparations for it to this day.....PLEASE don't uses the excuse "they were forced to do it or be killed" then the Germans who are going to jail for just being a "bookeeper" shouldn't be going to jail either. These JEWISH WORKERS PARTICIPATED DIRECTLY in the KILLINGS.....or so YOU Hoaxers say.....Talk among yourselves

The only way for Sonderkommandos members to escape their fate was to commit suicide, and some of the did it.

Other tried to to revolt as was the case in Treblinka, Sobibor and Auschwitz with a handful of survivors.

It is also recorded that the Germans regularly killed the members of a Sonderkommando because they did not want to let people who were seing what was happening alive.

Finally,very few members of the Sonderkommandos survived the war and, yes, most of them did not feel well because what they had done although they had no real choice. Some of them have puslished books about their experience.

 

[Degeneve]

What about Elizabeth Loftus and her research about memory, Doesn't have anything to do with the holohoax? Holohoax victims don't have memories?

Her research puts the nail in the coffin plus the Gringauz quotes are superb research materials. No cut and paste here. I've been following Loftus opinions since 1991. Understanding her research on memory is essential to understanding the truths vs lies especially the holohoax lies.

No, simply because "recovered memory" cannot be corroborated by material and/or archeological evidences and written documents...

As simple as that...

 

[LemmyCaution]

No, simply because "recovered memory" cannot be corroborated by material and/or archeological evidences and written documents...

As simple as that...

Indeed. HDenier keeps repeating the same misunderstanding of how we know about the Holocaust - in fact, about any historical event or period (because the methods we use to investigate and interpret history do not change because of the object of study): it is not because of a single piece or kind of evidence that we can draw conclusions about the past but on account of a range of pieces of evidence of different types that when taken together create a picture of what happened.

In one sense what we have to explain is all that evidence: We have photographs of the camps, records of where many of the transports went (Gedob records and surviving Fahrplanordnung, bureaucratic correspondence) and other railway timetables, evacuation orders, inventories of goods stolen from victims, construction records (and Pressac's 39 criminal traces, e.g.), etc, various kinds of statistical records and reports, archaeological and other physical evidence at the camps themselves. Further, we have some interesting things like reports from killing squads themselves as well as from the Wehrmacht - some of these, the Ereignismeldungen, were used to convict Einsatzgruppen leaders of murder without witness testimony. We've got documents related to the use of gas vans (e.g., 501-PS and others). We have planning documents and discussion records; we have SS internal investigations and court decisions; we have military war diaries and diaries kept by Frank and Goebbels; we have decrees, orders, and other records relating to implementation of the Final Solution. We've got personnel records of the SS, other police organizations, and Wehrmacht, we've got official reports on the results of actions in making areas free of Jews. And so on.

And we have other documents - newspapers, records of parliamentary debates, speeches by political leaders, and committee hearings. We have diaries and letters written by victims and observers. we have a wide variety of photographs and newsreels and other film footage, we have forensic and medical information (physical studies use increasingly sophisticated investigatory and modeling techniques), we have geographic data and geographic modeling methodologies, we have census records, we have business documents, government decrees and ordinances, internal memoranda, meeting protocols, audio recordings, orders, telegrams, log books and ledgers, architectural blueprints, forensic reports and so on. Yes, we also have the one type of evidence HDenier goes on about, and misinterprets - memoirs, witness testimony, and oral histories.

Using all these kinds of evidence, scholars work out what happened, how, and what people experienced during the period. Unlike HDenier, they do not look at a single kind of evidence in isolation. Given the complexities of evaluating different kinds of evidence, much of it complex, and their interrelationships, historians debate how to best interpret it. Real revisionism is the use of evidence to come to new understandings - not mindless repetition of a few catch phrases or supposed debunking exercises. Real revisionists do not hop around from slogan to slogan but sort through previous interpretations and old and new evidence to re-evaluate historical topics. Also, it has to be noted that historians routinely, as part of their craft, subject all evidence to scrutiny to weigh its value and determine what it can tell them - HDenier's implication that scholars stupidly accept on its face values whatever they come across shows how little HDenier knows about how historians work.

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . very few members of the Sonderkommandos survived the war and, yes, most of them did not feel well because what they had done although they had no real choice. Some of them have puslished books about their experience.

Also, Birkenau Sonderkommando members left behind manuscripts, which they wrote during captivity and buried on the grounds where they worked. A very good source on the experiences of the men who worked in the crematoria at Birkenau is Gideon Greif's book, They Wept Without Tears, which is a series of interviews with surviving SK laborers. Less well known are testimonies from "SK" laborers who escaped from Chelmno, quoted extensively in Patrick Montague's book on Chelmno.

Perhaps HDenier will summarize for us what he takes from the buried manuscripts at Birkenau, Gideon Greif's interviews, and other materials written or related by surviving SK members?

 

[EricRomm]

Did you know? Hitler's first love was a Jew woman. She rejected his proposal saying he was too ugly!
Is it the reason for "Pure German breeding" and the "Holocaust"?

 

[Nick Terry]

Indeed. HDenier keeps repeating the same misunderstanding of how we know about the Holocaust - in fact, about any historical event or period (because the methods we use to investigate and interpret history do not change because of the object of study): it is not because of a single piece or kind of evidence that we can draw conclusions about the past but on account of a range of pieces of evidence of different types that when taken together create a picture of what happened.

In one sense what we have to explain is all that evidence: We have photographs of the camps, records of where many of the transports went (Gedob records and surviving Fahrplanordnung, bureaucratic correspondence) and other railway timetables, evacuation orders, inventories of goods stolen from victims, construction records (and Pressac's 39 criminal traces, e.g.), etc, various kinds of statistical records and reports, archaeological and other physical evidence at the camps themselves. Further, we have some interesting things like reports from killing squads themselves as well as from the Wehrmacht - some of these, the Ereignismeldungen, were used to convict Einsatzgruppen leaders of murder without witness testimony. We've got documents related to the use of gas vans (e.g., 501-PS and others). We have planning documents and discussion records; we have SS internal investigations and court decisions; we have military war diaries and diaries kept by Frank and Goebbels; we have decrees, orders, and other records relating to implementation of the Final Solution. We've got personnel records of the SS, other police organizations, and Wehrmacht, we've got official reports on the results of actions in making areas free of Jews. And so on.

And we have other documents - newspapers, records of parliamentary debates, speeches by political leaders, and committee hearings. We have diaries and letters written by victims and observers. we have a wide variety of photographs and newsreels and other film footage, we have forensic and medical information (physical studies use increasingly sophisticated investigatory and modeling techniques), we have geographic data and geographic modeling methodologies, we have census records, we have business documents, government decrees and ordinances, internal memoranda, meeting protocols, audio recordings, orders, telegrams, log books and ledgers, architectural blueprints, forensic reports and so on. Yes, we also have the one type of evidence HDenier goes on about, and misinterprets - memoirs, witness testimony, and oral histories.

Using all these kinds of evidence, scholars work out what happened, how, and what people experienced during the period. Unlike HDenier, they do not look at a single kind of evidence in isolation. Given the complexities of evaluating different kinds of evidence, much of it complex, and their interrelationships, historians debate how to best interpret it. Real revisionism is the use of evidence to come to new understandings - not mindless repetition of a few catch phrases or supposed debunking exercises. Real revisionists do not hop around from slogan to slogan but sort through previous interpretations and old and new evidence to re-evaluate historical topics. Also, it has to be noted that historians routinely, as part of their craft, subject all evidence to scrutiny to weigh its value and determine what it can tell them - HDenier's implication that scholars stupidly accept on its face values whatever they come across shows how little HDenier knows about how historians work.

The pointlessness of the 'one source at a time' approach is glaringly obvious to anyone who looks down to the footnotes or flicks back to the endnotes of a history book. It's even clearer when one looks at more than one book.

References generally point to sources - these might be other books and articles which in turn cite their sources, or these might be primary sources of the various kinds LemmyCaution outlined. Historians working in a particular field will have many sources in common, but they also discover new ones.

Here's a survey of 148 books, 97 of which are in English, about different aspects of the Holocaust, Nazi crimes, and their aftermaths, a list that hardly even scratches the surface of what has been published on these subjects, but which includes many works that are generally regarded as essential.
They used a total of 221,641 endnotes/footnotes.

Even with repeated citations of the same core sources (such as the Wannsee protocol) and secondary literature across many different books, the number of relevant sources runs into the many 10s of 1000s.

Poliakov, Harvest of Hate 1951 481 notes
Reitlinger, The Final Solution 1953 1660 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1961 1st edition) 1961 3413 notes
Levin, The Holocaust 1970 693 notes
Dawidowicz, War Against the Jews 1975 598 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1985 2nd edition) 1985 4329 notes
Gilbert, The Holocaust 1986 2097 notes
Yahil, The Holocaust 1990 1784 notes
Friedlander, Years of Persecution 1997 1147 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (3rd edition) 2003 4711 notes
Friedlander, Years of Extermination 2006/7 2431 notes
Bloxham, The Final Solution 2009 557 notes
Longerich, Holocaust 2010 2263 notes
Goda, The Holocaust: Europe, the Jews and the World 2013 1440 notes
Cesarani, Final Solution 2016 1604 notes
Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews 2016 2404 notes
(23,870)
Trunk, Judenrat (English) 1972 2029 notes
Kogon et al, Nazi Mass Murder with Poison Gas 1983 551 notes
Benz (ed), Dimension des Völkermordes 1991 2703 notes
Aly, Final Solution 1995 982 notes
Browning, Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers 2000 586 notes
Corni, Hitler’s Ghettos 2002 2162 notes
Wildt, An Uncompromising Generation 2002 2389 notes
Browning, Origins of the Final Solution 2004 1853 notes
Stone (ed), The Historiography of the Holocaust 2004 1822 notes
Aly, Hitler’s Beneficiaries 2005 997 notes
Cüppers, Wegbereiter des Shoahs 2005 1719 notes
Westermann, Hitler’s Police Battalions 2005 1166 notes
Klemp, Nicht ermittelt 2005/2011 1497 notes
Gruner, Jewish Forced Labor under the Nazis 2006 1290 notes
Hoffmann, ‘Das kann man nicht erzählen’ (1005) 2008 1135 notes
Steinweis, Kristallnacht 2009 411 notes
Stone, Histories of the Holocaust 2010 926 notes
Morsch/Perz (eds), Neue Studien 2011 1249 notes
Confino, A World Without Jews 2014 418 notes
(25,885
Laqueur, The Terrible Secret 1980 280 notes
Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews 1984 1281 notes
Favez, The Red Cross and the Holocaust 1988 (1999) 565 notes
Phayer, The Catholic Church and the Holocaust 2000 969 notes
Leff, Buried By The Times 2005 876 notes
Herf, The Jewish Enemy 2006 842 notes
Longerich, ‘Davon haben wir nichts gewusst!’ 2006 1233 notes
Dörner, Die Deutschen und der Holocaust 2007 2265 notes
(8,311)
Bloxham, Genocide on Trial 2001 989 notes
Douglas, The Memory of Judgment 2001 465 notes
Weinke, Die Verfolgung von NS-Tätern im geteilten Deutschland 2002 1499 notes
Weindling, Nazi Medicine and the Nuremberg Trials 2004 2189 notes
Hebert, Hitler’s Generals on Trial 2010 870 notes
Segev, Simon Wiesenthal 2010 1026 notes
Heller, The Nuremberg Military Tribunals 2011 2400 notes
Eichmueller, Keine Generalamnestie 2012 1352 notes
Raim, Justiz zwischen Diktatur und Demokratie 2013 5422 notes
(16, 212)
Burleigh, Death and Deliverance 1994 972 notes
Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide 1995 1745 notes
Aly, Die Belasteten 2013 454 notes
(3,171)
Streit, Keine Kameraden 1978/1991 1780 notes
Krausnick/Wilhelm, Truppen des Weltanschauungskrieges 1981 2107 notes
Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde 1999 6309 notes
Dean, Collaboration in the Holocaust 2000 1019 notes
Ioanid, The Holocaust in Romania 2000 1378 notes
Angrick, Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord 2003 1933 notes
Berkhoff, Harvest of Despair 2004 1620 notes
Kruglov, The Losses Suffered by Ukrainian Jews 2005 1508 notes
Lower, Nazi Empire-Building 2005 756 notes
Curilla, Die deutsche Ordnungspolizei und der Holocaust 2006 8270 notes
Angrick/Klein, The “Final Solution” in Riga 2006 1282 notes
Kay, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder 2006 953 notes
Brandon/Lower (eds), The Shoah in Ukraine 2008 1105 notes
Arad, Holocaust in the Soviet Union 2009 1747 notes
Weiss-Wendt, Murder Without Hatred 2009 1339 notes
Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 2011 6712 notes
Reichelt, Lettland unter deutscher Besatzung 1941-1944 2011 1270 notes
Rentrop, Tatorte der ‘Endloesung’ 2011 969 notes
Rein, The Kings and the Pawns 2011 1472 notes
Ancel, The History of the Holocaust in Romania 2011 1909 notes
Kay, The Making of an SS Killer 2016 896 notes
(46,334)
Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw 1982 698 notes
Krakowski, The War of the Doomed 1984 565 notes
Engel, In the Shadow of Auschwitz 1987 911 notes
Arad, Belzec Sobibor Treblinka 1987 688 notes
Browning, Ordinary Men 1992 511 notes
Engel, Facing a Holocaust 1993 903 notes
Pohl, Von der “Judenpolitik” zum Judenmord 1993 863 notes
Pohl, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung in Ostgalizien 1996 2153 notes
Sandkühler, “Endlösung” in Galizien 1996 1050 notes
Bender, The Jews of Bialystok 1997 (2008) 1018 notes
Schelvis, Sobibor 1998/2003 662 notes
Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
Paulsson, Secret City 2002 547 notes
Rossino, Hitler Strikes Poland 2003 1100 notes
Poprzeczny, Hitler’s Man in the East: Odilo Globocnik 2004 463 notes
Crowe, Oskar Schindler 2004 1836 notes
Schwindt, Majdanek 2005 1475 notes
Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
Loose, Kredite für NS-Verbrechen 2007 2023 notes
Mlynarczyk, Judenmord in Zentralpolen 2007 1338 notes
Rutherford, Prelude to the Final Solution 2007 744 notes
Rieger, Creator of Nazi Death Camps 2007 551 notes
Kassow, Who Will Write Our History? 2007 1193 notes
Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
Roth, Herrenmenschen 2009 1233 notes
Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
Mailander, Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence 2009 (2015) 1408 notes
Puławski, W obliczu Zagłady 2009 2386 notes
Wardzyńska, Był rok 1939 2009 277 notes
Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
Browning, Remembering Survival 2010 1449 notes
Kuwalek, Das Vernichtungslager Belzec 2011/2013 713 notes
Curilla, Der Judenmord in Polen 2011 8405 notes
Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes
Berger, Experten der Vernichtung 2013 1698 notes
Klemp, Vernichtung 2013 590 notes
Rashke, Useful Enemies 2013 542 notes
Silberklang, Gates of Tears 2013 748 notes
Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide 2014 667 notes
Benz, Handlager der SS 2015 1185 notes
Zimmerman, Polish Underground and the Jews 2015 2067 notes
Hembera, Die Shoah im Distrikt Krakau (Tarnow) 2016 1548 notes
(56,119)
Browning, The Final Solution and the German Foreign Office 1978 811 notes
Safrian, Eichmann’s Men 1993 (2010) 1109 notes
Lozowick, Hitler’s Bureaucrats 2000 (2002) 787 notes
Gerlach/Aly, Das letzte Kapitel 2002 1870 notes
Cesarani, Eichmann 2004 1024 notes
Meyer, Täter im Verhör 2005 1,599 notes
Weitkamp, Braune Diplomaten 2008 2112 notes
Meyer, Das Wissen um Auschwitz 2010 556 notes
Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem 2011 (2014) 1406 notes
(11,274)
Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz 1994 318 notes
Gutman/Berenbaum (eds), Anatomy of the Auschwitz 1994 1160 notes
Dlugoborski/Piper (eds), Auschwitz 1940-1945, 5 vols 1995/2000 3286 notes
Dwork/Pelt, Auschwitz 1996 679 notes
Wagner, IG Auschwitz 2000 1308 notes
Steinbacher, ‘Musterstadt’ Auschwitz 2000 1632 notes
Pendas, The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial 2006 1227 notes
Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust 2010 1301 notes
Fleming, Auschwitz, The Allies and Censorship 2014 847 notes
(11,938)
Orth, Das System der nationalsozialistischen KL 1999 1234 notes
Schulte, Zwangsarbeit und Vernichtung 2001 1778 notes
Allen, The Business of Genocide 2002 726 notes
Strebel, Das KZ Ravensbrück 2003 2625 notes
Buggeln, Arbeit & Gewalt (translated as Slave Labor) 2009 1976 notes
Caplan/Wachsmann (eds), Concentration Camps in Nazi 2010 675 notes
Blatman, The Death Marches 2011 1836 notes
Jardim, The Mauthausen Trial 2012 616 notes
Weindling, Victims and Survivors of Nazi Human Expts 2015 1042 notes
Pauer-Studer/Velleman, Konrad Morgen 2015 510 notes
Wachsmann, KL 2015 3423 notes
Hördler, Ordnung und Inferno 2015 2086 notes
(18,527)
(148 books and collections; 97 in English) 221,641

As I said, this is just a sample of what is out there.

 

[threadworm]

The only way for Sonderkommandos members to escape their fate was to commit suicide, and some of the did it.

Other tried to to revolt as was the case in Treblinka, Sobibor and Auschwitz with a handful of survivors.

It is also recorded that the Germans regularly killed the members of a Sonderkommando because they did not want to let people who were seing what was happening alive.

Finally,very few members of the Sonderkommandos survived the war and, yes, most of them did not feel well because what they had done although they had no real choice. Some of them have puslished books about their experience.

In my personal opinion there are two types of people living under these kind of ultimatums. Those who tell them where to shove it and take the consequences, and those who choose survival. The former are laudable, the latter are entirely understandable.

The fact that our resisdent nazi apologists use the existence of people doing SS dirty work to deny that there was any dirty work done is beyond stupid. I very much doubt that they would exhibit the spine required to be part of the former group.

 

[Parsman]

"That statement by the Jew Gringuaz..." "You wonder why Jesus and the Apostle Paul condemned them as a people they truly are, form the synagogue of Satan as the Bible says, Rev 2:9, 3:9"

From which it is clear you are not arguing from evidence, but from a blinkered (bigoted) world view which believes a whole group of people, just because of their culture and beliefs, are somehow less than human to you. That in itself is disgusting, never mind the paucity of "evidence" you provide against one of the best known and understood events in the whole of human history.

 

[DianeKayKing]

Wow, the posting above (from Nick Terry) was pretty long. I thought those were supposed to be shortened. Guess that 'rule' only applies to designated specific individuals.

Regarding Himmler diaries. Even David Irving who recently wrote on Himmler from his discovered archives didn't mention such nonsense. I know, I know, this is NEW and IMPROVED holohoax. If you can't support the bogus narrative MAKE IT UP.

By the way, ANYTHING from the so-called Soviet archives must be held with EXTREME suspicion. From Hermod on the Revisionist CODOH Forum (from whom I have 'privileges' to use their material), The Soviet and American documentary forgery factories:

"On the Soviet side: ...Aside from extensively rewriting their own history, Russian forgery experts spent most of their time in producing material designed to delude, confound and mislead their perceived enemies, both domestic and foreign. Much of this began after the Second World War with extensive rewriting, editing and deliberate forgeries of German military and political documents designed to embarrass the United States and its client, the West German government, as well as to elevate the image of their own regime.

"Faked reports dealing with the purported death of Hitler began the deluge and these were followed by endless papers concerning the fate of Martin Bormann who the Soviets claimed was living somewhere in the West, probably protected by the insidious Americans. The same creative writers also heavily edited and enhanced the records of German Army Group Center, captured by their military units, when that entity was overrun during the war...."

 

[JimRizoli]

You mean Oskar Groening?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32336353

The man who says that the mass exterminations happened? He was there so he should know. Or did the JOOS get to him somehow?

Sometimes it's hard for me to read such nonsense....
If you only knew how the process worked....No one in their right mind (unless)
bulletproof would say it didn't happened.
The term is Judicial Notice....in other words the court set the standard of what was historically true you couldn't deviate off from it....so if they said 6 million died you better say yes maam....
So all on trial would have to go along with the picture or suffer the consequences....
Those that told the truth (it didn't happen) like Richard Baer last commandment of Auschwitz were suspiciously killed.
Thats how the game is played.....You will notice most of the defendants said the HoloHoax happened but they weren't part of the killing themselves.
They thought they would get away with it but many didn't.
They should of just told the truth...but then again if they did you HoloHuxsters here wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Of course all the Jew sondercommandos got off scott free even though they were part of the killing. I guess its who you know....LOL


JR

 

[JimRizoli]

From which it is clear you are not arguing from evidence, but from a blinkered (bigoted) world view which believes a whole group of people, just because of their culture and beliefs, are somehow less than human to you. That in itself is disgusting, never mind the paucity of "evidence" you provide against one of the best known and understood events in the whole of human history.

Yes in this case a whole group of people have behaved in a way less then human....thats how they are, it is what it is....
The Bible calls them and all that support them from the Synagogue of Satan....apt term I might add.
But of course you skeptoids have NO respect for the Bible and that is understandable because you worship the HoloHoax Cult as your religion.....
The Bible is wrong but the HoloHoax Cult is right on 100%....
Silly me to think that 6 million Jews were killed in fake gas chambers with bug spray. What was I thinking....LOL

JR

 

[Border Reiver]

Wow, the posting above (from Nick Terry) was pretty long. I thought those were supposed to be shortened. Guess that 'rule' only applies to designated specific individuals.

The rule you are referring to concerns itself with quotes from published material which is supposed to be kept short with a brief explanation of its relevance and a link to the full material. See Rule 4.

By the way, ANYTHING from the so-called Soviet archives must be held with EXTREME suspicion. From Hermod on the Revisionist CODOH Forum (from whom I have 'privileges' to use their material), The Soviet and American documentary forgery factories:

"On the Soviet side: ...Aside from extensively rewriting their own history, Russian forgery experts spent most of their time in producing material designed to delude, confound and mislead their perceived enemies, both domestic and foreign. Much of this began after the Second World War with extensive rewriting, editing and deliberate forgeries of German military and political documents designed to embarrass the United States and its client, the West German government, as well as to elevate the image of their own regime.

"Faked reports dealing with the purported death of Hitler began the deluge and these were followed by endless papers concerning the fate of Martin Bormann who the Soviets claimed was living somewhere in the West, probably protected by the insidious Americans. The same creative writers also heavily edited and enhanced the records of German Army Group Center, captured by their military units, when that entity was overrun during the war...."

Good thing that most of the evidence was not taken from Soviet archives then. The vast majority of the materials used in Western historiography prior to 1991 comes from West German and non-Soviet records.

 

[DianeKayKing]

When it was learned of those who refused to lie about the (soon-to-be) holohoax narrative, they suspiciously 'died' like Baer. Same with Goering.

To quote Harwood in FANTASTIC EXAGGERATIONS:

"So far as is known, the first accusation against the Germans of the mass murder of Jews in war-time Europe was made by the Polish Jew Rafael Lemkin in his book Axis Rule in Occupied Europe, published in New York in 1943. Somewhat coincidentally, Lemkin was later to draw up the U.N. Genocide Convention, which seeks to outlaw "racialism". His book claimed that the Nazis had destroyed millions of Jews, perhaps as many as six millions. This, by 1943, would have been remarkable indeed, since the action was allegedly started only in the summer of 1942. At such a rate, the entire world Jewish population would have been exterminated by 1945."