General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[JimRizoli]

Yes. Did you?

Say, have you found that supposed "expert report" from the Vienna trial yet?

Actually no I'm doing what you guys do just present information with no backup...LOL
I figure if the HoloHuxsters here can say like Gerstein said 40 million Jews died, and there were 120 ft pile high of clothing in Trebstinka, with the 75 ft pile high of shoes why not make a quote that if floating around somewhere.
I'm sure you trust me that it is out there....

JR

 

[LemmyCaution]

This Skeptic is extremely skeptical of HDenier's testimony that he had 'spent good money' on many books about the Holocaust.

So far HDenier has not offered any proof or evidence that he did any such thing.

Ahem.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Actually no I'm doing what you guys do just present information with no backup...LOL
I figure if the HoloHuxsters here can say like Gerstein said 40 million Jews died, and there were 120 ft pile high of clothing in Trebstinka, with the 75 ft pile high of shoes why not make a quote that if floating around somewhere.
I'm sure you trust me that it is out there....

JR

Speaking of making statements "with no backup," there you go again. Now you have to link to anyone "here" who claimed 40 million Jews died.

Jim, you're transparent: you've not studied this history, so when you're confronted with evidence, you simply go on "repeat" and spit out the same few fallacies you've picked up somewhere and fervently believe in.

 

[HDenier]

Thank you. This clearly shows that HDenier has practised quote mining again.

OMG, the Gringuaz quote was filled with more golden nuggets than I originally thought. His observations on gathering facts about this holohoax topic, could seriously be hindered and that "VALID HISTORICAL JUDGEMENTS ( that needs to be free of ) "partisanship, vindictiveness, and ulterior motives"

( This has obviously happened in the holohoax narrative.)

Gringuaz mentions the importance of "SOUND RESEARCH" and says:

"We believe finally, that although the time for final judgement may not yet have arrived, the establishment of methodological directives for research are immediate urgent tasks"

This obviously has not happened with the holohoax research and why Elizabeth Lotus mentions that EMOTIONS are NOT good for someones testimony because they effect the telling of truth. THUS, the Gringuaz quote in CONTEXT fits all the problems associated with holohoax testimony.

When peoples judgement becomes VINDICTIVE, and has ULTERIOR MOTIVES, their historical judgement is seriously impaired.

A perfect example of this would be the black lives movement and their side of the Trayvon Martin shooting or the other shootings, Michael Brown, where Vindictiveness has lead to false testimony, BECAUSE the people involved have made the topic too personal....We have that with the holohoax stories also.... I totally agree with Gringuaz statement that he made in view of what we know now from research done by Elizabeth Lotus on memory and the revisionist as they painfully try to unwind us from the Holohoax stories that have be shoved down our throats for over 70 years...

Thank you all for putting up the Gringuaz quote fully, that made my day.....WOW !!!!If you only knew what you did to my research on this topic. It is now up to another level of truth.....

For those really interested in the memory part of all this go to the video called Elizabeth Lotus: The Memory Factory. She makes an outstanding comment on the screen that says at the 1 hour 42 second mark of the video:

FALSE MEMORIES CAN BE EMOTIONAL
INFACT, THEY CAN BE JUST AS EMOTIONAL AS TRUE MEMORIES.
SO EMOTION IS NO GUARANTEE OF MEMORY ACCURACY ( my caps )

Once you honestly look at this video,

http://www.cornell.edu/video/elizabeth-loftus-memory-factory

which says NOTHING about the holocaust...you would see how all this Gringuaz Lotus information explains the holohoax narrative especially towards the end when she mentions the bit about emotions.....

The holohoax is all based on EMOTIONS and very little FACT and those fighting for the hoax are also using EMOTION, especially when they start using the lies like the Jews to soap. Jews to lampshades, Jews to wallets, you get the picture...You need to be EMOTIONALLY deranged to believe in any of these myths and lies told to us by people in high EMOTION, but these things are still pushed by the hoaxers....it is really shameful.

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[Hans]

...deleted a great deal of emotional statements

You are STILL wrong about using that quote in the way you did...or you can pretend you didn't

.....lol, lets see how long he goes on and on trying to cover up his mistake instead of just accepting it.

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . the first testimonies came during the war and some of them were written reports.

Among the evidence types you mention are contemporary diaries or other written accounts from the time, e.g., Chaim Kaplan, Abraham Lewin, and Emanuel Ringelblum writing in Warsaw; interviews with deportees and camp escapees compiled by Oyneg Shabes in Warsaw; Herman Kruk and Mark Dworzecki in Vilnius; Avraham Tory (Golub) in Kaunas; several members of the Birkenau Sonderkommando who buried their writings near the crematorium; Samuel Golfard in Galicia; Dawid Sierakowiak, Oskar Rosenberg, Josef Zelkowicz, and Jakub Poznanski in Lodz; Kazimierz Sakowicz at Ponary among many others. These writings were created as events occurred and their authors lived through them and have nothing to do with "false memory." They correlate with other sources, which is in part why they are so useful to understanding what happened and how the writers experienced what happened.

Jim - how many of these sources have you read? Please state your major concerns with what you've read. Thx, LC

 

[LemmyCaution]

OMG, the Gringuaz quote was filled with more golden nuggets than I originally thought. His observations on gathering facts about this holohoax topic, could seriously be hindered and that "VALID HISTORICAL JUDGEMENTS ( that needs to be free of ) "partisanship, vindictiveness, and ulterior motives"

( This has obviously happened in the holohoax narrative.)

Gringuaz mentions the importance of "SOUND RESEARCH" and says:

"We believe finally, that although the time for final judgement may not yet have arrived, the establishment of methodological directives for research are immediate urgent tasks"

This obviously has not happened with the holohoax research and why Elizabeth Lotus mentions that EMOTIONS are NOT good for someones testimony because they effect the telling of truth. THUS, the Gringuaz quote in CONTEXT fits all the problems associated with holohoax testimony.

When peoples judgement becomes VINDICTIVE, and has ULTERIOR MOTIVES, their historical judgement is seriously impaired. . . .

Thank you all for putting up the Gringuaz quote fully, that made my day.....WOW !!!!If you only knew what you did to my research on this topic. It is now up to another level of truth.....

For those really interested in the memory part of all this go to the video called Elizabeth Lotus: The Memory Factory. She makes an outstanding comment on the screen that says at the 1 hour 42 second mark of the video:

FALSE MEMORIES CAN BE EMOTIONAL
INFACT, THEY CAN BE JUST AS EMOTIONAL AS TRUE MEMORIES.
SO EMOTION IS NO GUARANTEE OF MEMORY ACCURACY ( my caps )

Once you honestly look at this video,

http://www.cornell.edu/video/elizabeth-loftus-memory-factory

which says NOTHING about the holocaust...you would see how all this Gringuaz Lotus information explains the holohoax narrative especially towards the end when she mentions the bit about emotions.....

The holohoax is all based on EMOTIONS and very little FACT and those fighting for the hoax are also using EMOTION, especially when they start using the lies like the Jews to soap. Jews to lampshades, Jews to wallets, you get the picture...You need to be EMOTIONALLY deranged to believe in any of these myths and lies told to us by people in high EMOTION, but these things are still pushed by the hoaxers....it is really shameful.

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HDenier - here I gave you a list of 12 recent books on the Holocaust. Please summarize for us at a high level (1) how these studies are "based on EMOTIONS and very little fact" and where their authors "start using the lies like the Jews to soap. Jews to lampshades, Jews to wallets, you get the picture." Also (2) how the authors have failed to use proper historical methodology and have instead been "VINDICTIVE" and (3) how "false memory syndrome" explains the work of these authors.

 

[LeoMajor]

I will not reply to any post by either brother that makes mention of ''bug spray'', ''six million in gas chambers'' or ''120 foot high piles of clothes''. We have shown the untruth of these sayings to them time and time and time again and they persist in wilful ignorance.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

Menacham Begin staged a bombing attack out of opposition to German reparations payments. And as you said, they were in relation to living survivors, not to compensate for dead Jews as Jim stated. I wonder often wetter he bothers to read any source materiel at all or just shoots from the hip and uses his imagination lol

Another thing not widely acknowledged by HD like Jim is that the Isrealis looked down on the survivors. The Isrealis thought they were weak or collaboraters and treated them with contempt. So much for one of the ideas behind the "hoax" was to force the European Jews to emigrate to Isreal.
The Isrealis nicknamed them "sabon," the Hebrew word for soap, as in, "soft like soap."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_made_from_human_corpses

 

[LemmyCaution]

You are STILL wrong about using that quote in the way you did...or you can pretend you didn't

.....lol, lets see how long he goes on and on trying to cover up his mistake instead of just accepting it.

His long post utterly misses the point - and fails to comprehend that using social science methodology Gringauz studied something very different to what HDenier thinks: Gringauz studied the organization of and life in the ghettos during "the great catastrophe" brought by the German occupation. His aim was to understand how Jews sustained and organized themselves during the catastrophe, including resisting the Germans.

Through wishful thinking, cherrypicking, and rote repetition, these guys hope to turn Gringauz's call for rigorous methodology, which scholars practice, into a condemnation of the very sorts of scholarly works that the call for rigor inspired.

By the way, in his 1949 article, Gringauz wrote of the ghettos that in them "the conditions were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation." According to Gringauz, his methodology showed that "the ghetto [was] one of the forms of mass destruction in the great Jewish catastrophe of 1939-45, which initiated the liquidation of the East-European era of Jewish history." ("The Ghetto as an Experiment of Jewish Social Organization" in Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 11, No. 1, Jan., 1949, pp. 3-20).

Frankly, I'm a bit surprised to see these guys praising Gringauz to the skies. It just shows that it helps to actually read what you cite. But whatever.

 

[HDenier]

Additionally, he is speaking on the context of ghetto testimonies. The denier sources that use his quote speak for the most part about testimony from the death camps. I'm not sure if this is ignorance or dishonesty on their part. In Rizzoli's case it is certainly the former.

Forget about WHERE the memory is taking place, the point is people who are part of the ghetto OR the concentration camps have a dog in the fight here.

If they had a bad experience personally, then expect a vindictive testimony. With a lot of the holohoax narratives a LOT of people explained how well they were taken care of. They speak of playing soccer, taking part in the orchestras surrounding the camps, putting on plays, getting a piano to play for the children, the list goes on and on.

The problem is those testimonies are shoved under the rug because they don't fit the death camps stories. Babies being born in Auschwitz? Not in you life, unless you read about the recent Pope's visit and the talk about the 3,000 babies born at Auschwitz.

The revisionist have been saying this for years but FINALLY to many people's testimony talked about the babies being born and not being thrown in the furnaces or gas chambers. You people defending this death camp nonsense need to see the greater picture here, WHO is telling the story. Gringuaz said some had a "ulterior motive" for their testimony. Sometimes those who participated in some real physical abuse of inmates made it look like they were angels, when some may have been murderers themselves so THEIR stories blamed OTHERS covering up their inhumane actions which got blamed on the SS, when in reality it was the Jewish Kapos.

Please don't give me the BS, Ya, they had to do it or be killed themselves crap, not going to hear it.....

Steven Ross of Massachusetts fame said he smothered a man to death when he was in a "cattle car". Mr Ross should go on trial for murder for killing one of his own, but the holohoaxers would rather put a 94 old camp bookkeeper in jail because it makes the headlines for Jewish victim hood.

Of course some of you probably think it was great Steven Ross smothered to death one of his own people.....

One more thing, don't say I made this story up about Stephen Ross, I was at the meeting when he said it.....


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[HDenier]

Yawn, oh and I see you refuse to acknowledge your error in posting the SG quote. Cannot admit mistakes huh? When you make a mistake pretend you didn't and change the subject. Huh?

lol

Mistake, not in your life. That SG quote backed up ALL my research in the holohoax narratives, especially the part False Memory plays in it.... That post made my year, thank you.......SG confirmed EVERYTHING I have been studying for over twenty years, you opened up a gold mine for me.....Can't thank you enough.....

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[JimRizoli]

I will not reply to any post by either brother that makes mention of ''bug spray'', ''six million in gas chambers'' or ''120 foot high piles of clothes''. We have shown the untruth of these sayings to them time and time and time again and they persist in wilful ignorance.

HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TREBSTINKA LIAR?

There is much more to the article but I don't want to offend the copyright police....LOL

He must of been on the same hallucinogenic drugs as Kurt Gerstein...LOL

Here is a snipit of the main nonsense he was quoted saying....
Franz Stangl, the former commandant of the camp at Treblinka in Poland who was sentenced to life imprisonment in December 1970. These were published in an article by the London Daily Telegraph Magazine, October 8th, 1971, and were supposed to derive from a series of interviews with Stangl in prison. "The account reaches the heights of absurdity when Stangl is alleged to have got out of his car and "stepped kneedeep into money.....

I waded in papernotes, currency, precious stones, jewellery and clothes. They were everywhere, strewn all over the square." The scene is completed by "whores from Warsaw weaving drunk, dancing, singing, playing music", who were on the other side of the barbed wire fences.

I'm sure the HoloHuxsters will believe this one....LOL

JR

 

[Elagabalus]

OMG, the Gringuaz quote was filled with more golden nuggets than I originally thought. His observations on gathering facts about this holohoax topic, could seriously be hindered and that "VALID HISTORICAL JUDGEMENTS ( that needs to be free of ) "partisanship, vindictiveness, and ulterior motives"

( This has obviously happened in the holohoax narrative.)

Gringuaz mentions the importance of "SOUND RESEARCH" and says:

"We believe finally, that although the time for final judgement may not yet have arrived, the establishment of methodological directives for research are immediate urgent tasks"

This obviously has not happened with the holohoax research and why Elizabeth Lotus mentions that EMOTIONS are NOT good for someones testimony because they effect the telling of truth. THUS, the Gringuaz quote in CONTEXT fits all the problems associated with holohoax testimony.

When peoples judgement becomes VINDICTIVE, and has ULTERIOR MOTIVES, their historical judgement is seriously impaired.

A perfect example of this would be the black lives movement and their side of the Trayvon Martin shooting or the other shootings, Michael Brown, where Vindictiveness has lead to false testimony, BECAUSE the people involved have made the topic too personal....We have that with the holohoax stories also.... I totally agree with Gringuaz statement that he made in view of what we know now from research done by Elizabeth Lotus on memory and the revisionist as they painfully try to unwind us from the Holohoax stories that have be shoved down our throats for over 70 years...

Thank you all for putting up the Gringuaz quote fully, that made my day.....WOW !!!!If you only knew what you did to my research on this topic. It is now up to another level of truth.....

For those really interested in the memory part of all this go to the video called Elizabeth Lotus: The Memory Factory. She makes an outstanding comment on the screen that says at the 1 hour 42 second mark of the video:

FALSE MEMORIES CAN BE EMOTIONAL
INFACT, THEY CAN BE JUST AS EMOTIONAL AS TRUE MEMORIES.
SO EMOTION IS NO GUARANTEE OF MEMORY ACCURACY ( my caps )

Once you honestly look at this video,

http://www.cornell.edu/video/elizabeth-loftus-memory-factory

which says NOTHING about the holocaust...you would see how all this Gringuaz Lotus information explains the holohoax narrative especially towards the end when she mentions the bit about emotions.....

The holohoax is all based on EMOTIONS and very little FACT and those fighting for the hoax are also using EMOTION, especially when they start using the lies like the Jews to soap. Jews to lampshades, Jews to wallets, you get the picture...You need to be EMOTIONALLY deranged to believe in any of these myths and lies told to us by people in high EMOTION, but these things are still pushed by the hoaxers....it is really shameful.

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Facepalm... the stupid, it burns ...

 

[LemmyCaution]

The problem is those testimonies are shoved under the rug because they don't fit the death camps stories. Babies being born in Auschwitz? Not in you life,

Nonsense. These topics are covered in histories of the camps. In context.

 

[Elagabalus]

HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TREBSTINKA LIAR?

There is much more to the article but I don't want to offend the copyright police....LOL

He must of been on the same hallucinogenic drugs as Kurt Gerstein...LOL

Here is a snipit of the main nonsense he was quoted saying....
Franz Stangl, the former commandant of the camp at Treblinka in Poland who was sentenced to life imprisonment in December 1970. These were published in an article by the London Daily Telegraph Magazine, October 8th, 1971, and were supposed to derive from a series of interviews with Stangl in prison. "The account reaches the heights of absurdity when Stangl is alleged to have got out of his car and "stepped kneedeep into money.....

I waded in papernotes, currency, precious stones, jewellery and clothes. They were everywhere, strewn all over the square." The scene is completed by "whores from Warsaw weaving drunk, dancing, singing, playing music", who were on the other side of the barbed wire fences.

I'm sure the HoloHuxsters will believe this one....LOL

JR

Jim, who are quoting. Gerstein, Stangl, the person who wrote the interview in 1971 or some Hitler Hugger nobody on the internet? Where can we find this snippet?


It's not that we don't trust you, it's just that we don't trust you.

 

[LemmyCaution]

HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TREBSTINKA LIAR?

There is much more to the article but I don't want to offend the copyright police....LOL

He must of been on the same hallucinogenic drugs as Kurt Gerstein...LOL

Here is a snipit of the main nonsense he was quoted saying....
Franz Stangl, the former commandant of the camp at Treblinka in Poland who was sentenced to life imprisonment in December 1970. These were published in an article by the London Daily Telegraph Magazine, October 8th, 1971, and were supposed to derive from a series of interviews with Stangl in prison. "The account reaches the heights of absurdity when Stangl is alleged to have got out of his car and "stepped kneedeep into money.....

I waded in papernotes, currency, precious stones, jewellery and clothes. They were everywhere, strewn all over the square." The scene is completed by "whores from Warsaw weaving drunk, dancing, singing, playing music", who were on the other side of the barbed wire fences.

I'm sure the HoloHuxsters will believe this one....LOL

JR

Source, again I have to request your source, please provide citation or link.

 

[LeoMajor]

HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TREBSTINKA LIAR?

There is much more to the article but I don't want to offend the copyright police....LOL

He must of been on the same hallucinogenic drugs as Kurt Gerstein...LOL

Here is a snipit of the main nonsense he was quoted saying....
Franz Stangl, the former commandant of the camp at Treblinka in Poland who was sentenced to life imprisonment in December 1970. These were published in an article by the London Daily Telegraph Magazine, October 8th, 1971, and were supposed to derive from a series of interviews with Stangl in prison. "The account reaches the heights of absurdity when Stangl is alleged to have got out of his car and "stepped kneedeep into money.....

I waded in papernotes, currency, precious stones, jewellery and clothes. They were everywhere, strewn all over the square." The scene is completed by "whores from Warsaw weaving drunk, dancing, singing, playing music", who were on the other side of the barbed wire fences.

I'm sure the HoloHuxsters will believe this one....LOL

JR

Stangl was describing the chaotic scene of the Treblinka camp during the tome Eberl was commandant. This abs ben known for decades. No, there was not money literally up to his kneecaps but the message remains utterly unscathed.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Mistake, not in your life. That SG quote backed up ALL my research in the holohoax narratives, especially the part False Memory plays in it.... That post made my year, thank you.......SG confirmed EVERYTHING I have been studying for over twenty years, you opened up a gold mine for me.....Can't thank you enough.....

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You could have fooled me: I thought you were trying to tell us that you believed that there was not a genocide of European Jews: but now you say the opposite:

in his 1949 article, Gringauz wrote of the ghettos that in them "the conditions were . . . determined by a policy of persecution, defamation and annihilation." According to Gringauz, his methodology showed that "the ghetto [was] one of the forms of mass destruction in the great Jewish catastrophe of 1939-45, which initiated the liquidation of the East-European era of Jewish history." ("The Ghetto as an Experiment of Jewish Social Organization" in Jewish Social Studies, Vol. 11, No. 1, Jan., 1949, pp. 3-20).

 

[HDenier]

LOL maybe our resident chowderheads will stuff their Bruins jerseys in the exhaust pipe of a truck for twenty minutes to "fumigate" them.

Maybe you can explain when the built train tunnels underground that they used Diesel ENGINES....Yet certain "chowderheads" claim these DISEL engines were used to gas hundreds of thousands during their holohoax......oops.......

Anyway, part of the DISEL engine folklore was this piece of laughable nonsense. If I was Jewish I would be embarrassed that I was used here as a pawn for the murder of their own people. What a bunch of lies and nonsense though:

http://www.nazigassin*gs.com/dieselgaschamb*er.html

"Jewish workers on the* other side opened th*e wooden doors. They *had been promised the*ir lives in return fo*r doing this horrible* work, plus a small p*ercentage of the mone*y and valuables colle*cted. The men were st*ill standing, like co*lumns of stone, with *no room to fall or le*an. Even in death you* could tell the famil*ies, all holding hand*s. It was difficult t*o separate them while* emptying the room fo*r the next batch. The* bodies were tossed o*ut, blue,[19]***wet with sweat and ur*ine, the legs smeared* with excrement and m*enstrual blood."

Gee, why aren't these "Jewish workers" brought up on trial for the deaths of these people? Oh wait, let's put a 94 year old camp bookkeeper on trial because he was there.....how ludicrous.

This holohoax narrative as far as I want to make a statement about Jews and their loyalty to money and that they could care about their own Jewish people is as far as I am concerned, a big fat lie.....If it is true then it is not too flattering about the Jews themselves....What an embarrassment to have something like this be part of the holohoax lore from the bowels of the Jewish story themselves, shame shame shame....



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