Brexit: the referendum

Lothian said:
Uniamity or simple majority?


Is almost Uniamity like almost virginity?
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Only in the sense that both are increasingly rare ! :p

If (IF) I understand the system correctly, then when the Commission proposes a new law, the Council of Ministers has to adopt it unanimously, or it immediately falls. So far so good.

Lets assume the proposal is passed by the Council.

If the Parliament subsequently rejects it, and no agreement can be reached on amendments, then a conciliation committee is formed, from an equal number of Council and Parliament members.

Now, as the preceding Council decision has to be unanimous ANYWAY, then we have to assume that the council contingent - 50% - will automatically vote FOR the proposal. Therefore, in order to 'block' the the proposal, EVERY MEP in the committee would have to vote "no". e.g. 100% of the Parliament representation.

(actually... it might be a qualified majority rather than a simple majority, in which case 70% - rather than 100% - of the parliament contingent would have to oppose it in order to cause it to fail).

THAT is what I meant by unanimity. :)
 
Henri McPhee said:
I remember years ago when Ted Heath was asked by a backbencher in the House of Commons whether there would be a single government for Europe. The answer from Ted Heath then was yes. He was quite candid and open about it.

Ever since then pro-Europe MPs have said that there was no possibility of Europe becoming a United States of Europe because of different languages and cultures and histories. Personally, I suspect there will be a vote for remain because it is supported on the whole by the political and business elite, who have the power.
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I just fear that the UK will become a deindustrialised EU province relying on North Sea oil revenues, rather like Ireland, with pensions and public spending cuts and bank bailouts dictated by a German housewife. That's what is happening to Greece. Lord Hill is a member of the European Commission, but he is only protecting the interests of London hedge fund managers, and in supporting Isis and Turkey and the Ukraine to join the EU.
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Angela Merkel is not a German housewife in any meaningful sense of the word - she's the leader of the most economically powerful country in Europe.

Would you say that Chancellor Kohl was a German house husband? I suspect that Merkel has about as much time for housework as he did.

Darat asked for facts - I am going out on a limb here - Lord Hill is not supporting Isis.

I don't think there will be much difference with a Brexit unless the Krauts impose sanctions and tariffs on the UK. The public and the House of Commons only understand beer fags and football. We have always had parliamentary government before now, not European Commission government.
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This demonstrates a distinct lack of appreciation of what would be needed for free trade. If it left, the only way that the UK could have free trade with the EU would be if it kept its standards harmonised with the EUs standards. Even then it would need to negotiate to pay for access to the markt - just like Norway. This seems a bit silly.


I believe the EU tried to ban milk deliveries in the past, probably after being lobbied by the supermarkets. It makes me wonder what else the EU is going to force on us.
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Do you have any evidence for this?

"I believe something that is probably untrue about the EU, which makes me wonder what else the EU is going to do".
 
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It was always going to come to this : on the one hand economic arguments and sensible people saying "Let's be sensible", and on the other Turks. People feel rather sorry for Syrians, but nobody likes Johnny Turk. Really, nobody. Not Arabs, not Greeks, not Russians - nobody has a good word for the Turks. A perfect choice.
 
ComfySlippers said:
Letter from Tony Benn to his constituents, written in 1975 and published in The Spectator.
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Tony Benn was a great Parliamentarian, a great intellectual, and a great speaker (I saw him make a speech in Thatcher's time and if they'd been handing out rifles and red armbands at the door I'd have taken them) but he's wrong on this. Parliament is sovereign because it is, not because the people are sovereign. The people aren't sovereign - Parliament is.

Ultimately, all sovereignty is self-declared.
 
What I'm really looking forward to is the Tory aftermath. It's my firm opinion that Cameron and Osborne are rubbish at managing the party at the best of times, and these are only the best of times from a certain perspective (such as mine :).) This should be something to watch, and take one's mind off the Trump thing.

2016, the Year of Living Transfixed in Fascinated Horror.
 
Oh, I missed the contempt for the UK public... ironic in a fact-free xenophobic rant with a sidr order of sexism.

"The public and the House of Commons only understand beer fags and football. We have always had parliamentary government before now, not European Commission government."
 
In the old days Parliament was the Supreme Court and the UK had a veto in a competitive common market. That all changed with the various treaties, like the Lisbon Treaty. Nowadays, if say Germany and France propose that Ukraine has the right to work in the UK then a British prime minister has to fly off to various European capitals to drum up support for a majority vote against the proposal.

I suppose it doesn't matter if you are happy for the UK to be an EU province and a third- class country, and it may be all too late to do anything about it now. It's just that I'm inclined to agree with Gaitskell, when he talked about a thousand years of history in the 1960's, and then died suddenly soon after.

There is talk now of the UK losing its seat on the Security Council of the UN, and the UK being replaced by Israel. The Foreign Office doesn't seem to mind.

These theoretical economists are partly to blame with all their lunatic currency arrangements and judicious use of the printing press. It's like Brussels is now full of lobbyists from big business and billionaires, who are not interested in furthering the interests of the people.
 
Henri McPhee said:
There is talk now of the UK losing its seat on the Security Council of the UN, and the UK being replaced by Israel.
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Do you have a source for that bizarre assertion? Please note that as a credible source, an update of this doesn't count!
 
Henri McPhee said:
There is talk now of the UK losing its seat on the Security Council of the UN, and the UK being replaced by Israel. The Foreign Office doesn't seem to mind.
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You're really just making **** up, aren't you? My musing is if you know you're just making **** up or if it becomes 'fact' to you just at the point you invent it or read the invention of another (that you won't source)
 
It's odd that the spectre of Hitler was invoked by a prominent Brexiter given the anti-Semitic posts in this thread.
 
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Rincewind said:
I see that Boris is at it again, after the banana stunt, he's apparently telling us that the EU has banned kids from blowing up balloons...

I can't help thinking that maybe he's really pro-EU, and is doing everything he can to sabotage the anti campaign.

Kinda False Flag - maybe I ought to check with Malbec?
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Perhaps he wants to be seen as pro-exit if they win (which would give him the best shot at Cameron's job) but be able to claim to be a brave double agent if they lose?
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Perhaps he wants to be seen as pro-exit if they win (which would give him the best shot at Cameron's job) but be able to claim to be a brave double agent if they lose?
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Yes, possibly!

Bojo does seem to conform to the saying, "How do you know a politician is lying? Because s/he is talking!"

For me, I can't help wishing that they'd just allowed a couple of weeks for the campaign!
 
Rincewind said:
Yes, possibly!

Bojo does seem to conform to the saying, "How do you know a politician is lying? Because s/he is talking!"

For me, I can't help wishing that they'd just allowed a couple of weeks for the campaign!
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I think we now enter a period of purdah where things will quieten down a lot.

As for BoJo, I reckon he's totally scuppered his chances of becoming the next Tory leader. Whether the vote is for in or out he's made a lot of enemies.
 
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