Brexit: the referendum

Lothian said:
Are you a random text generator? I see words but they bear little relationship to each other or reality.
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Seems to say more about you than anything said. Please reply top the points raised rather than an ad hom attack.
 
Roofgardener said:
Fair point Lothian.
However, it is worth pointing out that the Commissionaires take an oath that their actions will be in the interests of the EU as a whole, rather than of their individual national affiliations.

That kinda implies a seperate "European" identity for the "European Government", as opposed to being just a debating chamber for individual national perspectives and interests.

In other words, its intent is INDEED to be a "seperate independent body"

Wether that actually works in practice , I do not know.

As for dictating to member states against their will.... no.... the Commission doesn't dictate.

THAT is the prerogative of the Council.

Except on issues of Treaty Change, it most certainly CAN impose its collective will on any given member state. This IS democracy, but I think the "Brexit" argument is that it is operating over to wide a geographical range. What is appropriate or desirable for Poland or Greece may NOT be in the interests of the UK. (and vica versa, of course).
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I believe that your last point is the pivotal point in the problem. What is good for Germany and the UK, isn't what is best for France and even less so for regions such at Greece, Spain, Southern Italy and the intended new countries such as Macedonia. One of the biggest boons that we had was to opt out of the ERM. I believe that it has saved us from being dragged into the worst of the problems of the EU.
 
Lothian said:
Together the various EU parts certainly form a Government. My point is simply that the momentum behind that Governments actions come from the Member States as opposed to being a separate independent body that dictates to the Member states against their will, which is how some Brexiters present it.
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Believe what you will, but that means it comes via the Commission or the Council and the Parliament is a rubber-stamping organisation.
 
Actually, the Parliament can - in theory - over-rule the Commission and the Council and reject a piece of legislation. However, the proceedure is complicated and protracted, and would require almost uninamity in the Parliament; a difficult thing to acheive.
 
Roofgardener said:
Actually, the Parliament can - in theory - over-rule the Commission and the Council and reject a piece of legislation. However, the proceedure is complicated and protracted, and would require almost uninamity in the Parliament; a difficult thing to acheive.
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Uniamity or simple majority?


Is almost Uniamity like almost virginity?
 
Mikemcc said:
Seems to say more about you than anything said. Please reply top the points raised rather than an ad hom attack.
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The point raised started "..... these Brexit people" then listed a series of cuts that have nothing to do with Brexit. People behind Brexit come from all walks of life as do those for remaining None of the things listed can be blamed solely on Brexit supporters . If you can articulate the point being made and its relevance I will happily respond.
 
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Lothian said:
Are you a random text generator? I see words but they bear little relationship to each other or reality.
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The objection to being run by Krauts (and Frogs etc) is what drives the Brexit campaign.

All the other arguments are window dressing. It is xenophobia pure and simple.
 
Craig B said:
The objection to being run by Krauts (and Frogs etc) is what drives the Brexit campaign.

All the other arguments are window dressing. It is xenophobia pure and simple.
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To be fair it is refreshing when xenophobia comes marching out in the full regalia. Usually it is thinly disguised as "to take back powers", "Take back our borders"
 
I see that Boris is at it again, after the banana stunt, he's apparently telling us that the EU has banned kids from blowing up balloons...

I can't help thinking that maybe he's really pro-EU, and is doing everything he can to sabotage the anti campaign.

Kinda False Flag - maybe I ought to check with Malbec?
 
Rincewind said:
I see that Boris is at it again, after the banana stunt, he's apparently telling us that the EU has banned kids from blowing up balloons...

I can't help thinking that maybe he's really pro-EU, and is doing everything he can to sabotage the anti campaign.

Kinda False Flag - maybe I ought to check with Malbec?
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The evil Eurocrats have also interfered with our rights over used teabags, vacuum cleaners and coffins, according to Boris as related in this trustworthy source.
 
My 81 year old Eurosceptic Brexit-supporting father informed me over the weekend that the EU would be outlawing newpaper boys and girls. He gets his information from the Daily Telegraph.

As I understand it, the legislation relates to the European Social Charter which is enforced by the Council of Europe. It means that children of school age should not work so hard as to have an impact on their education. There's no hard and fast rule about how many hours a child can work but there is a suggestion, nothing more, that 2 hours per day every day before school may be too much.

My interpretation is that there's no suggestion of banning newspaper boys and girls but there may be action to restrict the hours that they work - not quite the same thing. If I think back to my youth, a 2 hour paper round seems rather long.

In any case, I'm not sure how "Let's Brexit so that our children can work the longest hours in Europe" is a "win".
 
The Don said:
... My interpretation is that there's no suggestion of banning newspaper boys and girls but there may be action to restrict the hours that they work - not quite the same thing. If I think back to my youth, a 2 hour paper round seems rather long.

In any case, I'm not sure how "Let's Brexit so that our children can work the longest hours in Europe" is a "win".
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Unfortunately there are handwringing do-gooders even in the UK. :D
Lord Shaftesbury ... wrote a series of letters to The Times and in September 1875 pushed another Bill through Parliament which finally stopped the practice of sending boys up chimneys.

A Chimney Sweepers Act was passed in 1875 that required chimney sweepers to be authorized by the police to carry on their businesses in the district, thus providing the legal means to enforce all previous legislation.​
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimney_sweep
 
I remember years ago when Ted Heath was asked by a backbencher in the House of Commons whether there would be a single government for Europe. The answer from Ted Heath then was yes. He was quite candid and open about it.

Ever since then pro-Europe MPs have said that there was no possibility of Europe becoming a United States of Europe because of different languages and cultures and histories. Personally, I suspect there will be a vote for remain because it is supported on the whole by the political and business elite, who have the power.

I just fear that the UK will become a deindustrialised EU province relying on North Sea oil revenues, rather like Ireland, with pensions and public spending cuts and bank bailouts dictated by a German housewife. That's what is happening to Greece. Lord Hill is a member of the European Commission, but he is only protecting the interests of London hedge fund managers, and in supporting Isis and Turkey and the Ukraine to join the EU.

I don't think there will be much difference with a Brexit unless the Krauts impose sanctions and tariffs on the UK. The public and the House of Commons only understand beer fags and football. We have always had parliamentary government before now, not European Commission government.

I believe the EU tried to ban milk deliveries in the past, probably after being lobbied by the supermarkets. It makes me wonder what else the EU is going to force on us.
 
Henri McPhee said:
I I don't think there will be much difference with a Brexit unless the Krauts impose sanctions and tariffs on the UK. The public and the House of Commons only understand beer fags and football.
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I see. As I have pointed out before: this is all about xenophobia. Here we have astounding xenophobia coupled with contempt for the common people and their elected representatives.

It is the political consequences of these ideologies, once catastrophically dominant in Europe, that European unity was established to avert. I hope it succeeds.
 
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