If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. Part II

[Redwood]

By "closest example", I meant a tall steel-framed building on fire that was abandoned due to fear that it might collapse.

Here you go, kiddo. One Meridian Plaza - The fires were so severe that firefighters abandoned interior firefighting efforts. It was probably saved from total collapse when sprinklers on the upper floors kicked in. Nonetheless, the building was totaled and was so unstable it had to be shored up before it was dismantled.

 

[Redwood]

Originally Posted by ProBonoShill
So firefighters described above cleared the area because the fire was dangerous, but at WTC 7 it wasn't dangerous? Is this the idiocy you're asserting????

There was no basis at 11 AM, 12 PM, or 1 PM to say that WTC 7 would collapse. If operations were abandoned due to the danger of the actual fire, that wouldn't be suspicious, but it wasn't. The collapse zone was made because a person identified as an engineer from the Office of Emergency Management told them that it would collapse in five or six hours, which lead to the fire chiefs making the decision to pull away.

Here's your problem, MJ: Your opinion doesn't count for anything in a court of law, amongst professionals, or even popular opinion. The opinion of FDNY professionals does. This is the granite wall of reality that Truthers have been smashing their heads against for almost 15 years, and coming off second best every time. How do you propose to change this?

BTW, in your expert non-expert opinion, was there ever a basis for fearing it would collapse?

 

[Redwood]

Originally Posted by Myriad
Your claim was that destroying documents with a paper shredder would be more likely to lead to suspicion and an investigation than an elaborate arson.

Important documents suddenly going missing is more suspicious than important documents being lost in the destruction of a building that is assumed to be nothing more than an unpreventable accident.

Here ya go, MJ: Let's assume, ad arguendo, that you are correct, and parse this out logically. If you are correct in your assumptions, the person being protected by total destruction of a building must have been looking at serious jail time. So serious indeed that it amounted to a life sentence and it was worth it to get involved in a mass murder plot and thereby risk execution.

The evidence must have been such that it could not be copied, re-retrieved, or backed up. It must have been known that such evidence actually existed.

The perp could not have had "friends in high places" who could simply have gotten the investigation quashed. Nor could the investigator be bribed or intimidated. Larry Silverstein must have been paid a massive bribe to destroy his own valuable building, unless he did it out of friendship or loyalty. (Helluva friend!)

Certainly any competent investigator could figure out who this is. Go to it! Or are there no competent people in the Truth Movement?

 

[ProBonoShill]

Adam Taylor?
Adam f****** Taylor???

You just refuse to learn.

Everything that’s gone wrong in your screwed up version of reality is due to the fact that you give credence to the opinions of amateurs and ignore professionals.

I gave you a link to an elaborate report by Brent Blanchard, Operations Manager for Protec, a company that performs seismic monitoring services for explosive demolitions companies. An expert in the field of "seismic recordings of controlled demolitions".

That company had seismic sensors strewn around Manhattan on 9/11/01.

Blanchard wrote up a detailed analysis on why NO explosive demolitions could possibly have happened on 9/11 and avoided being recorded on his seismometers.

Your response: Silence.
Not one word. You didn’t even bother to read the report from an expert on the topic that you keep screwing up, did you.

Now, you come back with … Adam Taylor.

Let me introduce you to the clueless moron that is Adam Taylor:
From AE911T:

[qimg]https://powerm1985.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/adam.jpg?w=620[/qimg]

LOL Thanks for that!

I'm sure with Adam Taylor on their side, that new investigation will be here any minute!!!!

 

[MicahJava]

Two other buildings collapsed that day from fire, all that was nessisary was to determine rate of Creep change to give an estimate of when the leaning bulging building would reach the critical loading to collapse!

So you are declaring here that you will no longer accept any explanation WTC 7's collapse that does not directly connect to the slight leaning/creeping that was allegedly measured? Can you please give me some examples in which a transit is used to predict when a building will collapse? Can you explain why this tool could give a misleading measurement, given that perimeter deformation was witnessed that afternoon? Can you please provide a timeline, using any form of evidence, for when this was used compared to when the engineer made his prediction?

You know how you scoff at the troofer meme "I'm just asking questions", with the implication that they have already made up their minds. Well here, I'm literally just asking questions. And if you can't find a way to answer without acting like I'm wasting your time, then why even come here?

 

[MicahJava]

Nope! No massive fire here! It's just smoke from the smoke generators that Larry Silverstein smuggled into WTC 7 and hid away in broom closets!

Redwood, there is no way to know how much smoke on the left picture is coming from WTC 5/6, as well as the picture on the left which shows the smoke that stuck to the south face of WTC 7 and later dissipated.

Are you trying to fool lurkers with misleading pictures?

Here you go, kiddo. One Meridian Plaza - The fires were so severe that firefighters abandoned interior firefighting efforts. It was probably saved from total collapse when sprinklers on the upper floors kicked in. Nonetheless, the building was totaled and was so unstable it had to be shored up before it was dismantled.

If you read the whole thread, you would know that I have mentioned One Meridian Plaza several times.

 

[MicahJava]

...

Tfk, Much of Adam Taylor's blog posts are scientifically minded in the sense that they correct false or misleading statements, as well as counter blanket statements with other information that provides ambiguity. He, among others, discredited the Popular Mechanics garbage, which did nothing but attack cleverly selected strawman arguments.

Jim Hoffman is the same way, and he made an adequate response to Blanchard, including what he said about the seismic evidence: http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/blanchard/

I know you still deny this, but a Youtuber high school physics teacher named David Chandler compelled NIST to admit freefall in their final report, when before they denied it and stated that it would be inconsistent with the structural failure they were studying.

"Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't." -Bill Nye

Also, if the "OEM engineer" actually worked for the FDNY as you claim, then his name would be known and Peter Hayden would have known who he was.

How does one exit a JREF thread, again? I believe they stop responding when there is nothing else worth responding to, resisting the bait of others.

 

[GlennB]

Redwood, there is no way to know how much smoke on the left picture is coming from WTC 5/6, as well as the picture on the left which shows the smoke that stuck to the south face of WTC 7 and later dissipated.

Are you trying to fool lurkers with misleading pictures?

The second picture was taken late afternoon, not long before collapse. WTC5+6 were just smouldering at that point in comparison. That smoke is from WTC7.

Here's another photo showing smoke plumes issuing from the windows at the top of the building. Please don't tell me they're smoke that has wafted up from nearby:



You seem to have consumed a large quantity of 9/11 muck and are now regurgitating it, bit by bit.

 

[MicahJava]

The second picture was taken late afternoon, not long before collapse. WTC5+6 were just smouldering at that point in comparison. That smoke is from WTC7.

source?

Here's another photo showing smoke plumes issuing from the windows at the top of the building. Please don't tell me they're smoke that has wafted up from nearby:

http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-53_1_small.jpg

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to comply with rule 5. Do not hotlink unless the originating site explicitly permits it.

"Please don't tell me they're smoke that has wafted up from nearby" -You

 

[GlennB]

The photographer who took them and records of the state of WTC5+6. A further clue below:

The WTC1 photo of yours was taken just after WTC2 collapsed. That's primarily dust we're seeing. (and please learn to size your photos appropriately)

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

Are you trying to fool lurkers with misleading pictures?

Misleading pictures?


Lurkers?

How does one exit a JREF thread, again?

Well......for a start you have to invent a time machine and go back to a date before the 5th October 2014.

 

[Spanx]

Much of Adam Taylor's blog posts are scientifically minded in the sense that they correct false or misleading statements, as well as counter blanket statements with other information that provides ambiguity.

That's just wonderful. I'm sure he will go far

 

[ProBonoShill]

Tfk, Much of Adam Taylor's blog posts are scientifically minded in the sense that they correct false or misleading statements, as well as counter blanket statements with other information that provides ambiguity. He, among others, discredited the Popular Mechanics garbage, which did nothing but attack cleverly selected strawman arguments.

No they aren't and no they don't, why are you lying again?

How does one exit a JREF thread, again? I believe they stop responding when there is nothing else worth responding to, resisting the bait of others.

How are you supposed to get that new investigation if you keep running away and dodging people's questions????

 

[ProBonoShill]

Okay so cutter charges weren't used and thermite wasn't used, what substance brought down the towers then? Did this substance bring down all three towers and the other buildings that collapsed that day or just the WTC 1, 2 and 7?



Iron microspheres are present in a lot of situations.

What exotic accelerant? Does it have a name?

Was this exotic accelerant the cause of the explosion heard in the Ashley Banfield video you posted?

Still waiting....

Says who?

You didn't answer my question, was the fire and area around WTC 7 dangerous or not?



Why would they want firefighters to "avoid WTC 7 like the plague" when they have murder on their mind. Wouldn't they want them in the building when it collapsed to add to the death toll. You're not making any sense?

Where would they find this water line, please explain?



That didn't answer my questions at all.

Again:

Well list a few, I'd like to hear a plausible explanation on why a group you claim wanted murder thousands of it's fellow citizens waited 7 hours and ended up killing not a single person.

Does that sound rational to you?




Ahhh so you're just trolling and have no evidence. No wonder more people now believe in BigFoot than the idiocy of 9/11 truth. Good job! You'll have that new investigation in no time!

You think thermal expansion strengthens steel?

Can't wait for your explanation. Give it to us please.

And still waiting micah...

You do know people can read and see you're avoiding questions right?

And still waiting... time for some more popcorn.

 

[MicahJava]

How are you supposed to get that new investigation if you keep running away and dodging people's questions????

Nothing will be solved here and nobody will care. It doesn't matter how many quotes from the NFPA 921 eerily describe the WTC destruction, nor if you provide a specific example of possible criminal foreknowledge citing facts and examples. That is more than enough for any rational person. America should have instituted a policy to investigate inside job/high-level coverup in catalyzing terrorist attacks after that blunder with the security camera footage from the OKC bombing showing John Doe #2 was either "lost" or "never existed".

There's a point where you must leave. 65 pages and no facts will be tolerated without trolling and baiting. Doesn't matter if they're pointed out by experts or ordinary concerned citizens. If I get an emal back from the NFPA or I get FOIA requests approved, I'll post what I find. Otherwise, bye.

 

[DGM]

Nothing will be solved here and nobody will care. It doesn't matter how many quotes from the NFPA 921 eerily describe the WTC destruction....................................

Any word from them?

 

[pgimeno]

Captain Michael Currid, the president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association, said that some time after the collapse of the Twin Towers, “Someone from the city's Office of Emergency Management” told him that building 7 was “basically a lost cause and we should not lose anyone else trying to save it," after which the firefighters in the building were told to get out.

September 11, An Oral History

That's a very interesting quote.

It seems plausible to me that "Someone from the city's Office of Emergency Management" might actually be Larry Silverstein, and the "fire department commander" that Silverstein mentions might be Currid.

They say basically the same thing, modulo the "lost cause" bit.

 

[pgimeno]

Also, unlike other historic large fires like One Meridian Plaze, the fire could not have spread floor-to-floor.

I've seen reports that it happened. So your claim strikes me as odd. Why not?

 

[beachnut]

Nothing will be solved here and nobody will care. It doesn't matter how many quotes from the NFPA 921 eerily describe the WTC destruction, nor if you provide a specific example of possible criminal foreknowledge citing facts and examples. That is more than enough for any rational person. America should have instituted a policy to investigate inside job/high-level coverup in catalyzing terrorist attacks after that blunder with the security camera footage from the OKC bombing showing John Doe #2 was either "lost" or "never existed".

There's a point where you must leave. 65 pages and no facts will be tolerated without trolling and baiting. Doesn't matter if they're pointed out by experts or ordinary concerned citizens. If I get an emal back from the NFPA or I get FOIA requests approved, I'll post what I find. Otherwise, bye.

There was no inside job, no cover up. There were 19 idiots who supported UBL's state goal to kill Americans, they took four planes and crashed them on purpose.

This means your inside job, your BS about NFPA, your cover-up are failed options in some fantasy you can't explain.

McVeigh did OKC as he said he did. It does not take a genius to make a fertilizer bomb in the back of truck he rented. It does not take a genius to kill fellow humans for idiotic reason. UBL and McVeigh, failed humans you apologize for my making up crazy claims of inside job, cover-up, and BS illogical comparisons.

9/11 was a plot with two steps, even idiots could do it. 1. take plane, 2. crash planes - UBL and his idiot friends figured out the USA treats hijacking with hours of negotiations, and according to USA customs. This gives the simple plot, the secret plot of suicide dolts killing thousands, about the time it took Flight 93 Passengers to figure out 9/11. That is how the timing for figuring out multi-hijackings are fake, and it an attack with a weapon of mass destruction, our airlines used as weapons.

The destruction of the WTC complex was solely due to the acts of 10 terrorists and two planes. You have failed to make a valid claim, and you have no clue why that is the truth. You can't grasp reality, you can't restart from scratch, you have to have the fantasy and BS of an inside job, cover-up, and more based a lack of knowledge.
How many CTs do you have? JFK, RFK, OKC, TWA800, JFKjr, 9/11, what else, start a thread of the many CTs you have.

... how many quotes from the NFPA 921 eerily describe the WTC destruction ...

This is the dumbest part of your quest. You fail to understand E=mgh was released, and each tower collapse due to fire had the energy due to gravity/mass/height of over 100 2,000 pound bombs; this is over 200 2,000 pound bombs worth of kinetic energy released on the WTC complex, crushing themselves and surrounding buildings... your "eerily describe" claptrap is illogical BS - and you don't understand why, after it is explained. 2+2 is four, but you are not paying attention.

Nothing will be solved .

9/11 was solved when Flight 93 Passenger figure out 9/11 and took action. You are nearly 15 years behind showing no signs of converging on reality, or truth.

 

[DGM]

I've seen reports that it happened. So your claim strikes me as odd. Why not?

I think it's because he needs them not to. He makes a lot of staments of fact but never actually supports them. What do you expect from a "truth" believer?