Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread II

[TheL8Elvis]

So let's see, sunmaster14 and Fudbucker are claiming because Sanders last registered in Vermont as an independent that when he decided to run nationally on the Democratic ticket he is doing so based on his Vermont voter registration as an independent. And you say this despite easily verified evidence that Sanders changed his registration to Democratic Party to run for POTUS? And you think that if he were a registered independent he could still be on the Democratic ticket in closed primary states?

FEC Form 2, Statement of Candidacy
Politifact

He can wishy-wash all he wants, he can pretend he didn't really join the Party. He announced he was a Democrat when he applied for the Democratic Party nomination. Whether he was sincere or not, whether he likes or not, you cannot run in the Democratic Party for the nomination to any office if you are not a registered Democrat.

Sanders declares as Democrat in NH primary

On George Stephanopoulis


So unless you are admitting he lies about his party affiliation when it suits him, he is currently a Democrat.


Guess I need to add you to the list too, TheL8Elvis. From your link:IE before he filed to run.

I was wrong, I would say that is "registered" .

I am surprised that politifact seems straight up wrong.

 

[Belz...]

You realize that's not a change in registered status, right?

It's amazing the lengths some people will go to to avoid admitting to being wrong.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It's amazing the lengths some people will go to to avoid admitting to being wrong.

He may have a point. If his state is a closed primary, can Sanders vote for himself?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

He may have a point. If his state is a closed primary, can Sanders vote for himself?

VT is an open primary.

 

[BobTheCoward]

VT is an open primary.

That wasn't my question. Let me ask it again. If his state is (hypothetically speaking) a closed primary, could he vote for himself in that primary?

 

[Belz...]

He may have a point. If his state is a closed primary, can Sanders vote for himself?

What does that have to do with it? The claim was that he's running as a Democrat, which he is.

 

[Foolmewunz]

That wasn't my question. Let me ask it again. If his state is (hypothetically speaking) a closed primary, could he vote for himself in that primary?

Since he decided in 2015 that he's a Democrat, if he was resident in a closed primary state, all he'd have to do is fill out a registration card. There's no litmus test. People declare that they are a member of a party. That's all there is to it. The polling stations don't phone up the Great High State Democrat to ask whether a certain name is on The List... there is no list.

 

[BobTheCoward]

What does that have to do with it? The claim was that he's running as a Democrat, which he is.

There are a few debates going on right now. Fudbucker was vgoing down this path and people responded.

Here is a better answer. I'm making my tangent post and you are free to care or not.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That wasn't my question. Let me ask it again. If his state is (hypothetically speaking) a closed primary, could he vote for himself in that primary?

There is no evidence he has registered in VT as a democrat, no.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Since he decided in 2015 that he's a Democrat, if he was resident in a closed primary state, all he'd have to do is fill out a registration card. There's no litmus test. People declare that they are a member of a party. That's all there is to it. The polling stations don't phone up the Great High State Democrat to ask whether a certain name is on The List... there is no list.

Has he done that?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Since he decided in 2015 that he's a Democrat, if he was resident in a closed primary state, all he'd have to do is fill out a registration card. There's no litmus test. People declare that they are a member of a party. That's all there is to it. The polling stations don't phone up the Great High State Democrat to ask whether a certain name is on The List... there is no list.

Well, there is a list. I'm a card carrying Democrat.

But the idea he didn't make some official declaration in Vermont when he made that declaration when seeking the nomination, gee, maybe Clinton can challenge his party affiliation and get him bounced from the national convention?

 

[Foolmewunz]

Has he done that?

No, because he's not in a state that requires registration, nor in a non-crossover state. It's your hypothetical, aren't you following it?

He "declared" himself a Democrat. I linked to the statement he made above when he filed to run in NH. He also filed papers with the NEC when he decided to run and listed his party affiliation.

This is a non-argument. He's running as a Democrat, has declared himself to be a Democrat and iterated that he will run in any future contests as a Democrat.

 

[d4m10n]

So now, your word DIVERSE, only means black, and Hispanic?

Those happen to be the specific demographic categories which predict Clinton victories.

 

[BobTheCoward]

No, because he's not in a state that requires registration, nor in a non-crossover state. It's your hypothetical, aren't you following it?

He "declared" himself a Democrat. I linked to the statement he made above when he filed to run in NH. He also filed papers with the NEC when he decided to run and listed his party affiliation.

This is a non-argument. He's running as a Democrat, has declared himself to be a Democrat and iterated that he will run in any future contests as a Democrat.

Sorry, voter registration is more important to me than any of those other declarations.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Sorry, voter registration is more important to me than any of those other declarations.

Why ?

Why does filling it out on a card in VT trump filling it out in a FEC from, and just plain stating it to world ?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Has he done that?

Presidential candidate says he is a Democrat now, but New Hampshire official is coy about whether lifelong independent will make ballot

MANCHESTER, N.H.—When Sen. Bernie Sanders files paperwork on Thursday to run in New Hampshire’s presidential primary, a question looms: Is he a Democrat, and if not, can he run in that party’s primary?

“I am running in the Democratic primary process.” Mr. Sanders said Wednesday in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. “I am now a Democrat.” That’s a shift for Mr. Sanders, who has always run for office as an independent, and describes himself as a democratic socialist. He has repeatedly declined invitations and suggestions that he join the Democratic Party.

To run in the New Hampshire Democratic primary, one must be a “registered Democrat,” and the New Hampshire secretary of state has repeatedly refused to say whether he will certify Mr. Sanders for the ballot.

This Quirky New Hampshire Law Might Keep Bernie Sanders Off The Ballot

State law says that presidential candidates must be a registered member of the party whose primary ballot they are trying to get on. In fact, the Declaration of Candidacy they must fill out is fairly straightforward (emphasis added):

I, ____, swear under penalties of perjury that I am qualified to be a candidate for president of the United States pursuant to article II, section 1, clause 4 of the United States Constitution, which states, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States." I further declare that I am domiciled in _____, in the city (or town or unincorporated place) of _____, county of ____, state of ____, that I am a registered member of the _____ party; that I am a candidate for the nomination for the office of president to be made at the primary election to be held on the ____ day of _____; and I hereby request that my name be printed on the official primary ballot of said _____ party as a candidate for such nomination.

So what about any POTUS candidate from a state where voter registration doesn't include party affiliation:

Even if he wanted to register as a Democrat, he couldn't — Vermont, like 19 other states in the country, doesn't have party registration. Other previous candidates for president who came from states that didn't register by party — such as both George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush from Texas and Al Gore from Tennessee — were able to prove a party history because they had been on ballots and won primaries many times.

He had to be officially swear he was a Democrat by the New Hampshire Ballot Law Commission.

One thing Sanders does have on his side is that both the national and state party have recognized him as a legitimate Democratic candidate for president.

When a reporter asked Sanders his party allegiance after he filed, Sanders responded, “I’m a Democrat.”

He then called on Buckley, the Democratic chairman, who confirmed the senator’s party allegiance. Sanders added that he would run as a Democrat in any future elections.

Of course he should be challenged to make it official in regards to his Senate seat. And Clinton has been campaigning, saying that she's "been a Democrat my entire adult life."

Given Sanders might be dishonestly running as a Democrat, he has even less reason to complain that the superdelegates support Clinton. He knew that when he decided to join the Party and seek the nomination. Like Cruz having made a few GOP enemies in the Senate, but for different reasons (Sanders is more likeable) you can see why there is less enthusiasm in the Party proper for Sanders. The election is not a runoff, it's the parties that choose their nominee and in the case of the Democratic Party, they've chosen to have superdelegates.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Why ?

Why does filling it out on a card in VT trump filling it out in a FEC from, and just plain stating it to world ?

As long as I have been an adult I Ave been a registered libertarian. Many times the party has dealt with ideological carpet baggers, Republicans that couldn't wina Republican party nominations so tried to exploit ballot access. I have serious problems with the type.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

As long as I have been an adult I Ave been a registered libertarian. Many times the party has dealt with ideological carpet baggers, Republicans that couldn't wina Republican party nominations so tried to exploit ballot access. I have serious problems with the type.

But, in this particular case ... there is no reason for Sanders to have updated his VT voter registration yet, is there?

And he did write it in on his election form, and announce ?

Are you afraid he might by some kind of independent/social democrat carpet bagger ?

I'm afraid I still dont understand your objection to the evidence provided.

 

[BobTheCoward]

But, in this particular case ... there is no reason for Sanders to have updated his VT voter registration yet, is there?

And he did write it in on his election form, and announce ?

Are you afraid he might by some kind of independent/social democrat carpet bagger ?

I'm afraid I still dont understand your objection to the evidence provided.

Best case scenario is he doesn't see it as important? That is enough for me to dislike another human being.

Obviously, there was no chance I was going to vote for him (looks like i'm voting for Johnson or McAfee). So, the only interest I have in him is on personal issues.

Interestingly, this would be the first thing I haven't liked about him.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Given one doesn't note party when registering in Vermont, then what makes Senator Leahy a Democrat? Is it because he ran as a Democrat? And if that's the case then doesn't that make Sanders a Democrat since he is running as a Democrat?

The same can be said in the dozen other states that don't note party affiliation on voter registrations. The semantic hoops here over the words, "registered party in the state voter registration" would mean the state voter registration was how one joined one's political party. And that isn't the exclusive means of being registered as a Democrat.