Should New Zealand Change its flag?

[smartcooky]

They aren't answering the pollsters then. And considering that the 1st referendum didn't even get 50% of voters.... yeah.

That is significantly better than most local body elections.

Also remember that it is NOT the majority of the people that are required for change, its the majority of the people that VOTE. If only 21% of the electorate vote to change the flag, but only 40% actually bother to vote, the flag will change.

Can you say that the Blue and Black is the best flag for NZ? That it is as close to a perfect representation of us as we'll get? If not, then why lose the chance to get that far better flag by waiting. If we vote the original we will get another chance, if we don't, we end up stuck with old rubbish that sucks as badly as the current one, if not worse.

Its just your opinion though,. Clearly, at least four in every ten kiwis thought it was OK or they wouldn't have made it a preference.

I preferred red corner and made black corner my second preference. I ranked red peak last.

I will be voting for change, but if either red corner or black corner had not won, I would be voting to retain the existing flag.

 

[Jules Galen]

All you people from New Zealand: Your Flag Sucks. Get a new one without the Union Jack - prove that you are a sovereign country and not an English Errand Boy.

In fact, I'll make a suggestion. Get a flag with the Kiwi wearing Jackboots and a Peace Sign in place of the Union Jack. This kind of flag says: we are New Zealanders and are generally peaceful, but we will stomp our enemies.

 

[The Atheist]

In fact, I'll make a suggestion. Get a flag with the Kiwi wearing Jackboots and a Peace Sign in place of the Union Jack. This kind of flag says: we are New Zealanders and are generally peaceful, but we will stomp our enemies.

This is a paragraph of pure genius. It's not every mortal that can put something so irrelevant and incorrect in a spot like that.

 

[Information Analyst]

All you people from New Zealand: Your Flag Sucks. Get a new one without the Union Jack - prove that you are a sovereign country and not an English Errand Boy.

Don't you just love an argument from ignorance?

 

[The Atheist]

Don't you just love an argument from ignorance?

Except it's not ignorance.

The "Jack" has long since been covered, and while you may believe the myth of the "United Kingdom" it certainly appears highly England-centric to the rest of the world.

It wasn't me that used the "England", but I do use it in that context, and for that very reasons. The Scots and Welsh are sufficiently in-bred to think they're winning under English rule, and there's nothing the slave-master likes more than the slaves cheering for slavery, but the fact is, to all intents and purposes, it is Mother England as much as it was 500 years ago.

You could hardly say Ireland has suffered from not being English as much as it did when it was.

 

[PhantomWolf]

That is significantly better than most local body elections.

Irrelevant.

Also remember that it is NOT the majority of the people that are required for change, its the majority of the people that VOTE. If only 21% of the electorate vote to change the flag, but only 40% actually bother to vote, the flag will change.

I'm aware of this, but what you seem to be missing is that in the initial round, this flag only got 17% of potential voters voting for it, and some of those people may have voted for it in the first referendum, but won't in the second. There were a lot of people who will vote against change in the second referendum who voted for an alternate flag this time (between 40 and 50% of those that voted if the polls are to be accepted), and even more that didn't bother voting at all, but will come out to vote next time. There are also those that supported a change, but not to the flag chosen and so will vote against it. Now admittedly there will be those like yourself that will support it and didn't in the first, but those numbers will be far fewer than those that will turn up for number 2 after refusing to support any flag in number 1.

Its just your opinion though,. Clearly, at least four in every ten kiwis thought it was OK or they wouldn't have made it a preference.

Your numbers are way off, only 12.5% of the population voted for it as their first preference, that's just over 1 in 10, not 4 in ten. Had you said 4 in 10 of those who voted, you'd be correct, but you can't extrapolate the vote over the rest of the population.

I preferred red corner and made black corner my second preference. I ranked red peak last.

As noted before, I thought the lot of them were horrible.

I will be voting for change, but if either red corner or black corner had not won, I would be voting to retain the existing flag.

I will be voting to retain, and I know a lot of people that refused to vote in the last referendum that will in the next, and vote for retaining the current.

 

[welshdean]

Except it's not ignorance.

The "Jack" has long since been covered, and while you may believe the myth of the "United Kingdom" it certainly appears highly England-centric to the rest of the world.

It wasn't me that used the "England", but I do use it in that context, and for that very reasons. The Scots and Welsh are sufficiently in-bred to think they're winning under English rule, and there's nothing the slave-master likes more than the slaves cheering for slavery, but the fact is, to all intents and purposes, it is Mother England as much as it was 500 years ago.

You could hardly say Ireland has suffered from not being English as much as it did when it was.

Ahem!

 

[The Atheist]

Ahem!

You can easily refute that be being anti-English.

Any evidence to show how you feel about England?

 

[welshdean]

You can easily refute that be being anti-English.

Any evidence to show how you feel about England?

Dude, are you serious?

I could show my ancestry to 8 generations, would that not prove that I'm not 'inbred'?

As to how I feel about England is fairly obvious to those that know me - I've lived here for 14 years and have 3 children to my English partner.

Where you guys (non ukians) go wrong here is simple, we tend to speak in terms of identities rather than nationalities. I identify as Welsh, I don't need to crap on my English neighbours porch to prove that, the incessant Tom Jones, Max Boyce and Shirley Bassey records do that for me!

ETA: Come the Olympics and I'm as British as the next man, come the 6Nations or Commonwealth Games and I turn into a member of Meibion Glyndŵr.

 

[MikeG]

......ETA: Come the Olympics and I'm as British as the next man, come the 6Nations or Commonwealth Games and I turn into a loser

FTFY

 

[welshdean]

You can easily refute that be being anti-English.

Any evidence to show how you feel about England?

FTFY

They're all bastards, every last one them.

 

[Information Analyst]

Except it's not ignorance.

The "Jack" has long since been covered, and while you may believe the myth of the "United Kingdom" it certainly appears highly England-centric to the rest of the world.

It wasn't me that used the "England", but I do use it in that context, and for that very reasons. The Scots and Welsh are sufficiently in-bred to think they're winning under English rule, and there's nothing the slave-master likes more than the slaves cheering for slavery, but the fact is, to all intents and purposes, it is Mother England as much as it was 500 years ago.

The point is that it's pretty dumb to interpret NZ as being anyone's "errand boy" on the basis of something on the flag. When was the last time NZ did or didn't do something due to this historical detail? It's also stupid to use "England" when Britain has been governed for centuries by individuals from all of it's component countries, some of which could actually be said to be over represented compared to the actual English, whatever the impression others may chose to get from thousands of miles away.

You could hardly say Ireland has suffered from not being English as much as it did when it was.

Apart from all that economic stagnation and mass migration for many decades post-independence, you mean?

 

[Ladewig]

..., come the 6Nations or Commonwealth Games and I turn into a Loser

FTFY

Ouch. I think I am going to start wearing a cup when I post on ISF.

 

[MikeG]

Ouch. I think I am going to start wearing a cup when I post on ISF.

No need That barb had a very specific target, and hit its mark squarely in the bull's-eye.

 

[The Atheist]

Dude, are you serious?

You could answer that yourself, because you know I was mentioning certain posts you may have made in the rugby thread.

Apart from all that economic stagnation and mass migration for many decades post-independence, you mean?

Tell you what - I'm a generous bloke. - let's look at the past 200 years only and see how Ireland did before independence and after. Pretty neatly about 100 years each way.

You can get back to me on the numbers.

 

[welshdean]

You could answer that yourself, because you know I was mentioning certain posts you may have made in the rugby thread.

That's called banter. There's no vitriol, it's not hatred. There's no envy, there's nothing. It's just the way we subjugated few play to our masters. We loves 'em we do!

 

[The Atheist]

That's called banter.

Correct!

 

[welshdean]

Correct!

I know!

 

[cullennz]

I am deeply offended

 

[The Atheist]

I am deeply offended

Good!

I hadn't offended a Wellingtonian today yet.