I'm thinking of abandoning Bernie

[varwoche]

The real question is, has the rhetoric of Hillary's fans been toxic enough to keep progressives and the support they've brought into the process from supporting her after the primaries? ...

For instance? (I expect cites to people/entities with some degree of significance, not random bozos on the internet.)

<snip long, non responsive reply>

Evasion noted. In the general, I hope and assume that most Sanders supporters aren't so infantile as to be swayed by comments by Clinton "fans".

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I like Bernie. I do. I see him as slightly better than Hillary on a number of issues I care about. I have a Bernie sticker on my car. I was planning on voting for him in the primary. But the reality is that lately his supporters are really rubbing me the wrong way.

It seems I can't click on any article lately on Hillary without running into a giant pile of "DNC is conspiring to crown Shillery the new queen!" type nonsense. They act like Hillary is somehow the ultimate villain on the stage. They first complain that the debates were scheduled wrong. Then, when Bernie failed to win over anyone new in them, they complained the questions were rigged. One guy on social media claims that the debates have been run from the outset to be huge Hillary commercials. Which is strange since the original conspiracy is that no one was going to watch them.

For me it is all becoming a bit much. I don't really see Bernie as that different from Hillary who is, however, very different from the long line of sentient wet hippopotamus farts that is the GOP candidates. Really I don't. In the same way I didn't see her as that different from Obama in 2008. Bernie, I think, has become more myth than man. I think many have lost sight of their similarities having gotten lost deep in the jungle of hyperbole.

The Berntards are this years version of the Paultards from 2008. It's a cult. Critical thinking skills not required.

 

[3point14]

I've donated to his campaign but many Bernie Sanders supporters are complete fools. They would rather help whichever far right Republican piece of trash wins the nomination win the general election by not voting or voting third party than vote for somebody that is significantly to the left of Republicans. Complete and utter fools. I don't think there are enough of them for it to matter, but still.

Perhaps they consider that voting for the lesser of two evils all the time just ends up making things more evil.

 

[varwoche]

... Personally, I see this as a flawed strategy by the DNC. If they install a conservative-lite candidate like Hillary as the face and direction of the Democratic party, they can't get too upset about progressives refusing to support that conservative-lite candidate, and have no one but themselves to blame for the consequences of their actions.

"Install"? As the saying goes, the CT section is that way >>>

 

[3point14]

Who would you replace her with? It just seems like anybody in the DNC would have strong professional and personal ties to candidates. That seems like just the byproduct of the passion that would attract people to the field.

In microcosm, the problem with many, if not all public/private interactions. They're all the same people moving from job to job in the same circles. Anyone without what I might call the DC/Westminster bias will be viewed as not having the skills/contact for the job. Anyone with the skills/contacts for the job is going to be intertwined with one or many of the parties or lobbying groups involved.

 

[Tiktaalik]

What is it that people think Clinton will do that is so terrible if she gets into office?

 

[3point14]

What is it that people think Clinton will do that is so terrible if she gets into office?

I think people are concerned at having a leader who is beholden to corporate interests moreso than the interests of the American people. They look at where a candidate's money is coming from and (rightly in my opinion) assume that people, be they presidents or paupers, will place the interests of those that pay them most at the forefront of their decision making.

 

[quadraginta]

What is it that people think Clinton will do that is so terrible if she gets into office?

Exist.

 

[Ziggurat]

What is it that people think Clinton will do that is so terrible if she gets into office?

Close down about half of our schools.

 

[DavidJames]

Is there a Republican talking point not parroted on this site?

All attack but nothing supporting their team.

 

[fuelair]

I think people are concerned at having a leader who is beholden to corporate interests moreso than the interests of the American people. They look at where a candidate's money is coming from and (rightly in my opinion) assume that people, be they presidents or paupers, will place the interests of those that pay them most at the forefront of their decision making.

Thanks to the supreme court we do not know in detail who contributes.

 

[TragicMonkey]

What is it that people think Clinton will do that is so terrible if she gets into office?

Is your bar for the office of president so low as "won't do something terrible"? How about actually expecting them to do something good? In my opinion, Hillary Clinton just wants to be president. She doesn't have any particular goals to achieve if she gets it. Whereas Bernie Sanders wants the office so he can use it to try to implement his ideals. Do I think he can realistically do so, as president? Not really. But I'd rather a good person try and fail than a bad one do nothing at all. We've been doing the "lesser of two evils", settle for the pragmatic option for decades and things haven't gotten any better. America is supposed to be about ideals, even if they are unrealistic. I think it's better to vote with your principles than vote against your fears.

 

[Hercules56]

What is it that people think Clinton will do that is so terrible if she gets into office?

She will continue Obama's legacy and expand it.

How is this a bad thing?

 

[Travis]

I think people are concerned at having a leader who is beholden to corporate interests moreso than the interests of the American people. They look at where a candidate's money is coming from and (rightly in my opinion) assume that people, be they presidents or paupers, will place the interests of those that pay them most at the forefront of their decision making.

Of course Hillary gets money simply because she is most likely to win. If Bernie was ahead in all the polls he'd be getting huge corporate donations too. Would that suddenly make him evil?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Of course Hillary gets money simply because she is most likely to win. If Bernie was ahead in all the polls he'd be getting huge corporate donations too. Would that suddenly make him evil?

It would make him like all the rest. The point of him is that he's not like them.

 

[Tricky]

Would you rather have a president who tries to do good? I would.

I would rather have a President who tries to do some good and occasionally succeeds than a President who tries to do a lot of good and fails completely.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... In my opinion, Hillary Clinton just wants to be president. She doesn't have any particular goals to achieve if she gets it. ...

That dismisses her entire adult life.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I would rather have a President who tries to do some good and occasionally succeeds than a President who tries to do a lot of good and fails completely.

This ^

Do we want ideology or do we want competence?

 

[thaiboxerken]

What about the fact it is a private non profit? If if is acting capriciously, that seems like it is their prerogative.

Sure, if they decided to just dump all candidates except Hillary, it would be legal.

What is your point?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Have you not learned from the Republicans?

Places extremists in office, then the moderate position looks so much more appetizing. Look at how sane Cruz looks today only because Trump is running. Reagan is a liberal saint compared to the Republican party of today. By moving the posts extremely to the right, the entire country was moved to the right by the Republicans and they are going even further. We need something like that to happen on the left.