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Seeing Cryptids: The Problems

A person can have real life adventures that include cougars.

It isn't all that much effort actually. Considerable effort, yeah - but anyone can get a cougar tag and put one they shot on the wall if they had a mind to.

Fabulism though, no we try to discourage that on the James Randi forum. Or International Skeptic Society forum.
 
Drewbot said:
Jodie claims she saw a cougar in SC making an unsuccessful attempt to attack the rump of a deer, successful cougar attacks are typically about the head and neck of the deer. Cougar predation tactics on deer has had thousands of years to evolve. So not only did she see a Cougar in the tidal islands of South Carolina, but she saw it attack a deer in a way that doesn't work, and which a cougar would not attempt to do, unless it was retarded.

It sounds more like the typical attack of a Coyote or a stray dog.
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http://cougarrewilding.org/CougarNews/?p=4531
A Brookfield resident reported spotting what at first appeared to be a mountain lion but turned out to be a large bobcat, the third sighting in town in a month . . .
Some eastern bobcats have no visible spots. Another diagnostic characteristic not mentioned is the fact that bobcats have white patches on the back of their ears. Cougar do not. This fact has enable the Cougar Rewilding Foundation to identify assumed cougars in several photos as bobcats . . .
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http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6974.html
While DEC receives several reports of cougar sightings each year, it is mostly cases of mistaken identity of other animals. Cougars are commonly mistaken for wild bobcats, fishers and coyotes, as well as domestic housecats and dogs.
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http://www.damnedct.com/mountain-lions-litchfield-hills
With all due respect to people who claim to have seen a mountain lion, Officier Hilli says he does not think there are breeding pairs of mountain lions in the state because there is just no physical evidence. He points out that in states like Florida where they are known to be, authorities will regularly find a carcass of a mountain lion hit by a car on a road at least once a month -- there hasn't been one single carcass recovered here yet. He also says there's been no other evidence found: no bones, no fur, no scat . . .

As for what people have seen, he thinks people either mistake bobcats or coyotes for mountain lions. He mentioned that once while on patrol, he thought he had seen mountain lion cross the road in front of him. When he stopped to investigate, however, he discovered it had only been coyote. Other than that, in all his years in the woods and forests of Connecticut, he has never seen one.
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Resume said:
...http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6974.html
"While DEC receives several reports of cougar sightings each year, it is mostly cases of mistaken identity of other animals. Cougars are commonly mistaken for wild bobcats, fishers and coyotes, as well as domestic housecats and dogs."...
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It's the grammar police because gov website: That last sentence should read "Wild bobcats, fishers and coyotes, as well as domestic housecats and dogs are commonly mistaken for cougars." Otherwise you might hear things like "Hey Larry look at my new chow chow." "Cripes, that's not a chow chow Vladimir that's a gawd ****** puma."
 
No, it happens all the time. How often do we hear of a cat owner who let his tabby inside, only to find it was a 200 lb. mountain lion lapping up the tiny bowl of cream? Very common.
 
The Shrike said:
No, you're missing the point. The fact that I am a biologist might mean that I can recognize a larger number of species on sight than can the average bloke, but it in no way buffers me from a mistake in perception about something I think I've seen.

When someone claims to have seen an out-of-place cougar, my skepticism rarely stems from supposition that the alleged witness does not know what a cougar looks like. This is why "I know what I saw" is perhaps the weakest thing that witness can offer in an attempt to bolster the claim. When I read/hear that, I immediately translate it into "I know you know what you think you saw, but that in no way establishes that you saw what you thought."
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I think you're wrong about that based on the research I linked about how memory and recall actually function. Since this is your field, you are much more likely to correctly recognize an animal since it is committed to your long term memory. Research indicates that long term memories for something learned, and used repeatedly, are less likely to be corrupted. The only factors that might affect that are the conditions in which the sighting occurred such as distance, lighting, direct, or indirect view. That said, if you told me you spotted an out of place cougar I'ld be more likely to accept what you said as opposed to a car salesman or a mortician.
 
Talking about seeing cryptids, the bassist in Wyld Bird Seed claims to have seen the Trellech Big Cat (although in the case of the BBC article it is likely that the injuries were caused by a large housecat). He claims to have seen a large (at least as big as a large dog) feline on his property about 15 years ago - about the same time as the news story.

Now another neighbour of his claims to have seen a similar beast but given the amount of time between alleged sightings this must be a different animal. If it actually exists (a huge if IMO) then this means that there is either a breeding colony or a second escapee. Neither seems particularly likely to me because.

  • Despite all kinds of big cat "experts" following up on reported sightings, there have been no tracks, dung or other traces found
  • This is ideal country for a big cat with plenty of delicious and stupid sheep to eat and yet no local farmers have reported sheep or lambs being killed
  • No bodies have been found
  • No photographs have been taken

I cannot however explain what our bassist, who is an intelligent and rational person, saw.
 
Jodie said:
That said, if you told me you spotted an out of place cougar I'ld be more likely to accept what you said as opposed to a car salesman or a mortician.
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*

Remember the context of the conversation: I claimed to have seen a fisher in Maine. Were I to report that to the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, no one would bat an eye because fishers are well known to occur there.

If, however, I had reported an ocelot, I would expect (hope!) that the DIFW file my uncorroborated anecdote in the loony bin, despite the fact that I know what an ocelot looks like. This is because the claim is of something so unusual that it's more likely that I - world's foremost ocelot expert that I am - was simply mistaken.

*Over the past 24 hrs, I have been engaged in a protracted discussion with our state bird records committee chair of the merits of a bird I claim to have seen. I know the species quite well, but my sighting is about a week late for a migratory species like this one. His day job? He's a mortician.
 
The Shrike said:
If, however, I had reported an ocelot, I would expect (hope!) that the DIFW file my uncorroborated anecdote in the loony bin, despite the fact that I know what an ocelot looks like. This is because the claim is of something so unusual that it's more likely that I - world's foremost ocelot expert that I am - was simply mistaken.
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Okay, let's play out this scenario. You have reported the ocelot to the DIFW which is summarily disregarded, not making it into any official database. What if I then report seeing one as well? And then 8 others do too for a total of 10 reported sightings.

So we have 10 reports that officially don't exist. Does my report lend any additional credence to your report? What about the other 8? What if you found out about my report? What if you found out there there weren't 10 reports but hundreds of them? At what point do you say to yourself, "hmmm, there might be a rouge ocelot in the woods".
 
Northern Lights said:
Okay, let's play out this scenario. You have reported the ocelot to the DIFW which is summarily disregarded, not making it into any official database. What if I then report seeing one as well? And then 8 others do too for a total of 10 reported sightings.
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Multiple, independent reports would be suggestive of a real animal, and rightfully so. I don't know if the threshold is 10 or 100 or 1000 before the DIFW does anything differently, however.

Of course, multiple witnesses do not an unusual creature make, as bigfoot illustrates better and better with each passing day. See also the Dutch panda that wasn't.
 
lol - remember we are watching what you do rather than listening to what you say.

What if you reported all your group's bigfoot stories to Fish and Game? Well you don't do that. Because you know it doesn't exist. So you play a pretend game.

By all means, pick up the phone right now and make your report to Fish and Game. Let us know who you talked with. The most defining feature of "footers now is refusing to reveal where their so-called "research area" is. Like your group. Various lies are told to justify not reporting. The property owner doesn't want people to know. Bigfoot will be disturbed. You will be called crazy. Etc.

So asking us "what if" all of you are reporting to fish and game, lol. Sure. And what if I didn't ever pee?
 
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Northern Lights said:
Okay, let's play out this scenario. You have reported the ocelot to the DIFW which is summarily disregarded, not making it into any official database. What if I then report seeing one as well? And then 8 others do too for a total of 10 reported sightings.

So we have 10 reports that officially don't exist. Does my report lend any additional credence to your report? What about the other 8? What if you found out about my report? What if you found out there there weren't 10 reports but hundreds of them? At what point do you say to yourself, "hmmm, there might be a rouge ocelot in the woods".
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What if you formed a group, where people could report their Ocelot sightings, and all of you could pat each other on the back, when a new story appeared, and if the story was really good, you could have that person come out and speak at your quarterly meetings? Would that make Ocelot sightings in Maine any more credible? Or would normal people just think you are group of disordered pretend outdoors people?
 
If after a couple of centuries no one could produce a photo or a piece of an ocelot, then some folks might start to question the whole thing. There are a lot of closed-minded people in this world, Drewbot.
 
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