Jeremy Corbyn might actually win?

[MikeG]

What is this "left", "right" and "centre ground" of which you speak? I'll tell you: they are wholly arbitrary labels dictated by commentators hostile to Labour.......

Jeez, your perception of the conspiracies against Labour is.........erm..........interesting. So now we have another: well understood political concepts (which originate in France, I think.......are they in on the anti-Labour conspiracy too?). Of course, it obviously wouldn't be a conspiracy if any member of the press were to label a Tory as a right winger, would it....

 

[GlennB]

"[UK] elections are won from the centre ground..........always. " ...

... seems to have got somewhat lost in the noise.

However, it would place both the Attlee and Thatcher governments in the "centre" even though they're diametrically opposed in just about every respect.

"Nonsense" is a respectable word to describe this concept.

 

[MikeG]

Yep, fair comment. I was too definite. But those exceptions prove the rule: 70 years and 36 years between those extremes and the present day.

 

[The Atheist]

Late to the Party party, but...

Just under 60% of the vote for Corbyn!

Sixty percent.

Second placegetter: 19%.

Over triple the total managed by any other.

The new Secretariat!

The parliamentary Labour party so thoroughly trounced in the last election, you mean? I think you're profoundly wrong about the national mood and Labour's prospects, but it will take at least a few years to become clear. We shall see.

Best answer you can give. Let's wait and see before we state categorically how history will view the episode.

The whiners and Blair-liteists - and Blair himself - have utterly failed to sway the voters, and by continuing to gripe about the death of the Labour Party, they are exposing themselves as hypocrites and sour-grapers and no more.

Corbyn's put his entire life on the line and the voters found it to their taste.

Indeed, it may turn out to be a flash in the pan, but anyone not leaping joyfully on the bandwagon and giving it a go should go and dunk their head in a bucket of water until they can learn to accept defeat and not carry on like a bunch of crybabies.

Corbyn added: “So long as the party realises the folly of trying to win elections by being microscopically less awful than the Tories, it is accomplished.”
[/COLOR]

That is the entire point.

People clearly don't want light blue, they want red.

Good!

I have to say that six months ago, I had no hope whatsoever against Conservative political might.

This morning, with Corbyn winning and Sanders still showing up strongly in USA - both backed by new and young voters - I'm starting to get some hope for the planet.

Now, if we can just oust this POS we have masquerading as a PM...

 

[JihadJane]

Yep, fair comment. I was too definite. But those exceptions prove the rule: 70 years and 36 years between those extremes and the present day.

How does an exception prove a rule?

 

[MikeG]

How does an exception prove a rule?

Wiki

 

[Antony]

Jeez, your perception of the conspiracies against Labour is.........erm..........interesting. So now we have another: well understood political concepts (which originate in France, I think.......are they in on the anti-Labour conspiracy too?). Of course, it obviously wouldn't be a conspiracy if any member of the press were to label a Tory as a right winger, would it....

Where did I say it was a "conspiracy"? You're missing the point: talk of "left", "right" and "centre ground" without ever saying what these terms refer to in terms of a political programme, is completely vacuous - and I say the same of anyone who uses "right wing" as a term of abuse.

As for "well understood political concepts", that's got to be one of the most ridiculous things you've said. If they're so "well understood" then you should be able to give a definition of them. I've already asked for one (of "left wing"), but it seems to have passed you by.

 

[trustbutverify]

:

Well, the truthers are happy.

 

[MikeG]

.......I've already asked for one (of "left wing"), but it seems to have passed you by.

I have no interest in helping fill in the gaps in your knowledge.

 

[GlennB]

How does an exception prove a rule?

Wiki

The phrase means to test a rule, not demonstrate it to be true, and in this case many experiences show that there is no such rule.

 

[MikeG]

The phrase means to test a rule, not demonstrate it to be true, and in this case many experiences show that there is no such rule.

By which you mean two?

 

[MikeG]

Where did I say it was a "conspiracy"?.......

Here:

.......they are wholly arbitrary labels dictated by commentators hostile to Labour........

 

[caveman1917]

Indeed, it may turn out to be a flash in the pan, but anyone not leaping joyfully on the bandwagon and giving it a go should go and dunk their head in a bucket of water until they can learn to accept defeat and not carry on like a bunch of crybabies.

Excuse me? This is not our victory.

Today saw the election of North Islington MP Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the UK Labour Party. His remarkable leadership campaign attracted a storm of near-hysterical criticism from both established Labour figures and the right-wing press, but gained considerable support from across the UK left. From major trade-unions to Trotskyist sects, Corbyn succeeded in uniting a broad swathe of the established left, as well as many ordinary Labour Party members and supporters, behind his bid to lead the party following its worst election defeat in 30 years. In spite of a vicious propaganda campaign from right-wing papers like the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, and the Express, alongside former Labour Prime Ministers and other high-ranking members of the Labour establishment (not to mention an attempted purge of his supporters by the current Labour leadership) Corbyn now looks set to lead the Labour Party into the next UK general election in 2020. For most of the British left, this will doubtless be a cause for considerable celebration.

We’re not celebrating.

I got better and more productive things to do than "leaping joyfully on your bandwagon", thank you.

 

[Antony]

I have no interest in helping fill in the gaps in your knowledge.

In other words you can't answer the question. And of course my purpose in asking the question isn't because I didn't understand; it's to test you to see whether you understand the terms you are using. The fact that you pepper your posts with these terms while declining to say what they mean, says it all.

and:

Where did I say it was a "conspiracy"?.......

Here:

.......they are wholly arbitrary labels dictated by commentators hostile to Labour........

That doesn't make it a conspiracy. What it is, is meaningless language adopted by people who don't want to talk in specific terms. As for "commentators hostile to Labour", it's pretty clear that much of the news media is virulently anti-Labour, and would be no matter what leader they chose; that's not something you seriously challenge, is it?

 

[GlennB]

By which you mean two?

That's cheap. It was all that was mentioned, not all the examples available.

Home/Wilson
Wilson/Heath
Callaghan/Thatcher
Major/Blair
Baldwin/MacDonald

... just to name some incumbents/successors

How many do you want?

 

[MikeG]

That's cheap. It was all that was mentioned, not all the examples available.

Home/Wilson
Wilson/Heath
Callaghan/Thatcher
Major/Blair
Baldwin/MacDonald

... just to name some incumbents/successors

How many do you want?

I'm not following, Glenn. Are you claiming Heath and Major as right wingers, or Blair & Wilson as left wingers, for instance?

 

[3point14]

I have no interest in helping fill in the gaps in your knowledge.

Do you have any interest in making sure everyone means the same thing when they use terms, particularly potentially loaded terms, within a debate?

 

[MikeG]

Do you have any interest in making sure everyone means the same thing when they use terms, particularly potentially loaded terms, within a debate?

Well, it would be nice.......but these terms are well understood, and this side track leads to obvious elephant traps. Hence I declined the invitation, as I still do.

 

[GlennB]

I'm not following, Glenn. Are you claiming Heath and Major as right wingers, or Blair & Wilson as left wingers, for instance?

You're following perfectly well, but trying to extract yourself from the absurd claim that "the centre always wins UK elections" by nitpicking the tendencies of particular pairings from left and right.

 

[caveman1917]

Well, it would be nice.......but these terms are well understood

Says the guy who claimed that neoliberalism is left-wing.