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Jeremy Corbyn might actually win?
- Thread starter Giz
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Antony
Graduate Poster
Which is what happens when you let your opponents define the terms of debate - such as characterising everything as "left-wing (boooh!)" or "moderate (yaay!)". Before you argue with that, give me a meaningful definition of "left-wing", since it is a term you used. What we need is a Labour party that is prepared to challenge the sacred cows and taboos that have held sway for far too long, and we haven't had that since the early years of Kinnock's leadership.
I've looked at Corbyn's programme, and I can't see anything that could remotely be described as "hard left". You seem to be throwing a wobbly about "people's QE", but others are pointing out that it's not more than other governments are doing, and Corbyn reportedly has serious economists backing him - so I hardly think it's the end of the world as we know it.
Antony
Graduate Poster
I mentioned him to point out the huge contrast in press portrayal of him before he became Labour leader, compared with afterwards. The Corbyn of the tabloid press in the coming years will not be the same as the Corbyn who has been vilified and scorned throughout the leadership election.
And Foot, for all his idealism, was far too emotional to carry the public with him, and when it came to the crunch, allowed himself to be manipulated by reactionary comment in exactly the way you seem to be advocating. I don't think Corbyn will fall into these traps. He may not win next time round, but I believe he has a far better chance than Burnham, Cooper or Kendall would have had on an "appease the right-wing press" ticket.
Here you go again, with more conspiracy nonsense. Never mind the press, the Labour party has to appeal to the British public, and most of them aren't on the left. Nor the right. Which is why elections are won from the centre ground..........always.
Sunstealer
Illuminator
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The man's a fruit-loop. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyns-21-most-surprising-6235923
And that's the Labour supporting Daily Mirror.
Strawberry
Master Poster
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Nothing in that link supports your description of him as a fruit loop. For a start, some of them are clearly jokes, as the Mirror itself admits, and others are sensible or at least mainstream, eg, calling for a smoking ban in workplaces.
Always? Really?
"Within this context, his government undertook the nationalisation of public utilities and major industries, as well as the creation of the National Health Service. After initial Conservative opposition to Keynesian fiscal policy, this settlement was broadly accepted by all parties for over three decades ...."
Sounds pretty left to me, unless you define "left" in a relative way. In that case (posts passim) Attilla The Hun's "megadeath" party could be characterised as "left" relative to Vlad the Impaler's followers
Quantative Easing for the people would be a lot more effective than Quantative Easing for (corrupt) financial institutions has been:
'How to waste £375 billion':
http://positivemoney.org/2014/06/waste-375-billion-failure-quantitative-easing-video/
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You seem to have mistaken right-of-centre policies for "hard left" policies. What do you think the current government (and the last) is doing?
That's trying to split hairs, and if it was the policy of the BoE why were you claiming it was a "hard left" policy Labour would in 5 years time enact if they win the 2020 general election?
Trying to fix the mess left by Gordon Brown.
Presumably, you're advocating that the current government doesn't borrow at all? In which case, the minor austerity we've had for the last 5 years would be as nothing.......
Would seem he has a good sense of humour if you ask me!
Increasing liquidity when in the depths of a recession is a very different thing from doing it when the economy is booming. Proposing it, as Corbyn explicitly has, as a means to increase public spending is a very different, and very left-wing, thing compared with using QE to stimulate a contracting economy.
Indeed. I didn't see fruit-loop in that article.
Isn't it amazing how Gordon Brown caused a complete meltdown of the entire world's financial sector? I mean if it wasn't for Gordon Brown going around to all those USA folk and persuading them to take out mortgages they couldn't afford on property not worth the valuations and then making all those USA (and then other countries) private companies create new ways to dice and slice bad debt so it could be sold as "low risk" debt and then master minded the collapse of Lehman Brothers to start the dominos rolling we'd all be in the land of plenty....
Silly rhetoric aside - if you think about it that would be the position your words would seem to advocate i.e. a government borrowing is a hard-left policy. I would say since all governments whether centre, left or right leaning borrow to only claim it is a weakness of a left-leaning government indicates a bias not based on facts.
I saw your extended explanation but only after I'd posted.
I've not thought about if the different "QE paths" represent a right/left dichotomy so I can't agree nor disagree with your view his is a left leaning policy. I'd have to read up on it to have an informed opinion and to be frank - not something I do voluntary on a Saturday night!
Left leaning governments don't mind borrowing, or taxing, because their primary concern is higher public spending. Right leaning governments want to live within their means, and advocate smaller government, thus try to reduce public spending. However, right of centre governments don't exist in a vacuum: they follow left of centre governments which often as not have left the public finances in a worse state than they found them. You can't correct over-spending instantly, and so we have years of "austerity" every time a Labour government leaves office.
Refer back to previous posts of mine where I have talked at length about this excessive swinging from one extreme to the other. Over correction followed by over correction......too much spending, then too much austerity. If Gordon Brown had kept the public finances better, then we wouldn't have needed this amount of austerity. But, go a step further back.......if the Conservatives hadn't clamped down on public spending so much under Thatcher and Major, then Brown wouldn't have felt obliged to increase it so much. This continual cycle of left/right over-spending/ under-spending is one of the reasons I never want any party in power more than 2 terms, and why I am so disappointed that Labour have just put themselves in a position where they will be in opposition for at least 3 terms.
Antony
Graduate Poster
What is this "left", "right" and "centre ground" of which you speak? I'll tell you: they are wholly arbitrary labels dictated by commentators hostile to Labour.
Win the arguments and your position will be the "centre ground". Abdicating the argument and chasing a "centre ground" decided by your enemies will lead inevitably to failure.