Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

The "other thing"? What else did she lie about, other than pot?

As for trust - she trusted that the police were not lying to her, which they were. After her arrest, she slowly disabused herself of the notion that anything to do with the justice system could be trusted.

LOL. The cops, the prosecutor, the forensic scientists and the pathologist were all a bunch of dirty liars. Unlike Amanda and "Five Stories" Raff, the beacon of truthfulness and verisimilitude. O-kaaay.

 

[Vixen]

Hi Billy Williams!
Dude get with it!
If ya wanna earn your paycheck,
ya gotta get those 75 more words in, or how many more was that Vixen?

Anyways,
Free Rudy Guede has posted some pix on The Nutz website
http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/vi...d=2431f23b11b9aa9a6c16091efabce549&start=4750
showing how Miss Kercher clawed at Foxy Knoxy's throat!

That was not a hickey,
it's a defensive scrape from a young chick defendin' herself before she was raped and murdered.

How could I be soooo clue less to not have realized this myself?
I mean its not like I've never seen a good cat fight
and the aftermath as the cuties were re-adjustin' their bikinis down at the hangout wall of The VBWL.
Banged up chicks on the beach in bikini's, classic!

Gosh,
for some reason that scratch sure looks like some of the hickeys that I've given Melissa.
No way thats a hickey, it's a scratch, as Free Rudy Guede is tryin' to convince me.

But I'ma bit skeptical.
Might have to bust out a Canon and take a time lapse sequence and show some of those old chicks
what it's like to have a horny dude suckin' their ?,
err neck,
yea!

Mez scratced at Amanda?
Hmmmm...

And [SIZE="-7"]Raff[/SIZE] and/or Amanda cut Meredith's fingernails off
after Rudy went out dancin' + before the cops arrived!

Hahaha.
****^^^ funny!

I am sure you are the sexpert of Californ-i-a, but that is not a hickey. A love bite, as we call it in England, is a nasty bruise and is not a scratch.

 

[bagels]

LOL. The cops, the prosecutor, the forensic scientists and the pathologist were all a bunch of dirty liars.

Now tell us how you feel about the Hellmann appellate court, the two professors from Rome, and the Supreme Court

 

[Vixen]

I realize that you're merely posing a theoretical mental exercise, but since clearly Amanda would have had mucho cleaning supplies on hand at Rafaele's apartment without going to the store early in the morning of Nov 2nd, why not make your theoretical scenario more plausible?

Suppose instead, that Amanda awoke early on Nov 2nd and realized she needed tampons, so around 6:30 she rushed to the nearest market (Quintavalle's) where she quickly bought the tampons, and went back to Raffaele's apartment, and then she went back to sleep until 10:00 am, as she had claimed.

Several days later while being grilled by the police Amanda may have very well forgot her tampon buying excursion, after all, think back 4 or 5 days and try to reconstruct your every move on any particular day.

Of course, there are reasons to even discount a theoretical quick tampon excursion to Quintavalle's store, such as Quintavalle's two clerks testified they didn't see Amanda that morning, and even Quintavalle told the police (at first) that he hadn't seen Amanda in his store that morning.

Also, there may be no register receipts showing tampons purchased at that hour, but that didn't stop them with the imaginary bleach receipts.

Quintavalle's description of the coat he claimed Amanda wore that morning didn't match any of her actual clothing.

That Amanda's alibi was busted (in part) at the Massei trial by Quintavalle's obviously bogus story, is truly amazing!

Whatever did Amanda do without you to come charging to her rescue? Have you compiled her defense for the upcoming serious charge of recidivist calunnia?

 

[Vixen]

I found a report made during the trial that covered the issue. The reporter stated that the cash register had been sequestered. He went on to say that the lack of a computer record produced seemed to indicate they had found nothing.

Here's another source from AKC.com

President: The Public Prosecutor can exhaust the examination. So the defense is asking, when the police came and they asked you what? About the bleach you were saying?

Quintavalle: Yes, they asked about the Ace bleach and they asked me for my cash register record, the daily book let’s call it where all the sales are recorded, the roll of receipts, because one is given to the customer and one remains in the book, so to speak. And they took it to see on which day there had been the purchase of Ace bleach at 1.09.

So you all owe the Vixen an apology for nit-picking about this.

Here's the first post
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10847406#post10847406

Quintavalle had asked his cashiers if they remembered her or what she had bought that morning, but they did not remember anything. Quintavalle stated that detergent bleach is sold in his store for 1.09 euro per bottle and he carries only one kind (ACE), and they are all 1.09 per bottle.

Comment: if the prosecution introduces a till receipt for a 1.09 euro item sold at approximately 8:00am on November 2nd this would be very telling. So far such a receipt has not been introduced. The Police sequestered the till receipts, but have not officially released the findings. A possible problem is that many places don’t even ring up the items on the register to save the taxes and half probably go missing anyway. But overall, this was quite damning testimony.

I should have said earlier they sequestered the till receipts, oh my.

Thanks, Grinder, unlike some, I don't make things up. Sure, souces can be erroneous, but my facts are generally from reasonably reliable sources. Of course, Richard Owen of the TIMES is only as good as his sources, but you can see from these early reports, as far as the police were concerned, it was an open and shut case.

Enter the spin doctors...

 

[Desert Fox]

No they didn't. Sheesh. BTW, They are INNOCENT.

Who cares if they are innocent, somebody has to be made an example of.

 

[Methos]

Rudy did not plead guilty in exchange for nailing Amanda and Raff, and thereby getting a lesser sentence. Your erroneous claim Italy has plea bargaining "just like in the USA" falls at the first hurdle.

Do your homework before making assertions that informed posters know to be patently untrue.

Well, Guede was shopping for mitigating circumstances, the one that looks most important to Borsini and Belardi seems to be:

deve anche essere ricordato che il GUEDE è stato l'unico, sia pure in una ricostruzione dei fatti alquanto fantasiosa, ad indicare i correi.

 

[acbytesla]

Thanks, Grinder, unlike some, I don't make things up. Sure, souces can be erroneous, but my facts are generally from reasonably reliable sources. Of course, Richard Owen of the TIMES is only as good as his sources, but you can see from these early reports, as far as the police were concerned, it was an open and shut case.

Enter the spin doctors...

I leave it to you to make us laugh.

 

[Vixen]

Yes the whole idea about by the bleach to clean up that morning is ridiculous. Filomena as we know was only a few minutes away, it is not as if she had gone abroad, there was no guarantee that she would not pop into her flat to pick up something that morning.

It is a bit like the conflict in the concept between Knox / Sollecito carrying out a forensic clean that morning and being discovered unexpectedly by the postal police (Nobody expects the Italian postal police). Yet despite the 'unexpected' arrival of the police there is no smell of bleach, no cleaning cloths, no dirty clothes. Even if you try and follow through a pro guilt theory it falls apart as being nonsensical.

Planigale, one minute you are saying the smell of bleach dissipates very quickly, now you are claiming it should last all night in time for cops to get a whiff of it.

Which is it to be?

 

[Desert Fox]

Planigale, one minute you are saying the smell of bleach dissipates very quickly, now you are claiming it should last all night in time for cops to get a whiff of it.

Which is it to be?

If the police smelled bleach, it was most likely their own imaginations getting away from them just like yours is.

 

[Methos]

Amanda and Raff benefited from the same mitigating circumstances.

The fact that they wilfully chose to claim innocence, is an aggravating factor they brought on themselves.

That's an interesting attitude... So in your mind it is better for an innocent to give up his/her right to defend him/herself at trial for the reduction of the sentence by chosing the "fast track", instead of "fighting" because the prosecution always wins?...

 

[acbytesla]

Who cares if they are innocent, somebody has to be made an example of.

That's right dammit. We're going to make an example of this pretty young American. How dare she come over to Italy to study and have fun!!! We'll be idiots and show the world just how stupid and petty we can be!!!

When we're done, no foreigner in their right mind will go to school in Perugia!

 

[Vixen]

In addition to no one noticing any bleach smell in the cottage on Nov 2nd, several days after the murder (after Raffaele had been arrested) when the cops went to collect Raffaele's kitchen knife and claimed to have smelled bleach there, Raffaele's housekeeper testified she had just cleaned Raffaele's apartment the day before using strong smelling LYSOFORM cleaner, so it was Lysoform that the cops had smelled and NOT bleach.

Of course, Raffaele already had 2 jugs of bleach under his kitchen sink; nevertheless, if the cops could just prove that Amanda had bought bleach the morning after the murder, then it would be crucial evidence against her ...under such convoluted reasoning that it should boggle any sane mind!

Since Grinder appears to be a bleach advocate, maybe he can logically explain Mignini's insane bleach theory to us?
Seriously, I never did understand this big ado over bleach?

Also, as I recall from the video when the CSIs used gift-wrapping paper around the mop they had found at the cottage (the cops found ithe mop in a CLOSET AND NOT ON THE FRONT PORCH), the girls' mop looked bone dry as if it hadn't been used in many days.

As I recall, Amanda was supposed to have fetched a mop from the cottage to use on Raffaele's kitchen floor, but did she ever do that? Did Raffaele's housekeeper bring a mop with her to clean Raffaele's floors each week?

The mop fiasco could much more damning evidence for the 'Guilters' than their non-starter issue of bleach?

Amanda herself spun out the mop story. See e-mail home to >25 people.

Once again you show yourself to be an unreliable witness.

 

[Bill Williams]

You are confusing "lying" with "having an opinion". As Harry Rag and/or the Machine are not in the dock, who cares what opinion they hold. It least it's an informed one, and not one based on infantile hero-worship, as advised by acbytesla.

This proves you have a random response generator. You are trolling this page.

 

[bagels]

Planigale, one minute you are saying the smell of bleach dissipates very quickly, now you are claiming it should last all night in time for cops to get a whiff of it.

Which is it to be?

But 5 minutes ago you said she bought fresh bleach the day after the murder. It seems like you're the one having a problem maintaining a consistent narrative.

 

[acbytesla]

Whatever did Amanda do without you to come charging to her rescue? Have you compiled her defense for the upcoming serious charge of recidivist calunnia?

You seem to forget the obvious Vixen.

One, Amanda couldn't be extradited for this farce.

Two, due to time considerations, it is impossible for this to come to conclusion. That it will just end in limbo.

But hey, you can dream...right?

 

[Strozzi]

They might have wanted bleach to clean shoes or a knife or something else, who knows? Obviously, it's better if all the scraps of evidence build a coherent picture but that doesn't make outliers irrelevant. If it emerged that Amanda really had got up early to buy bleach but had chosen to omit the fact from her accounts, are you saying that would be irrelevant unless it could be shown what the bleach was for? Pshaw! You're simply wrong.

This case is loaded with language errors and cultural misperceptions. Would Amanda, having been in Italy 6 weeks, have even known the Italian word for bleach? Suppose she had bought a bottle of what she thought was laundry detergent and, when asked about buying bleach, denied it. (The Italian word for bleach is not "bleach". It is 'candeggiante' (whitner)).

There could have been an innocent misunderstanding. What is the probative value if she had denied it. It only has probative value if she had purchased bleach, understood it was bleach, understood what Napoleoni was asking about in Italian, and willfully lied about having known she purchased what she knew to be bleach.

Are you going to rely on Anna Donnino to straighten it out? All I could advise Amanda in a situation like that is "Duck".

 

[Vixen]

???? What the hell are you talking about Vixen? Maybe you should read my post before you run your mouth. I never said Rudy did and I challenge you to cite the post where I did.

Ken Dine made the ridiculous assertion and you rushed to back him up.

 

[Desert Fox]

That's right dammit. We're going to make an example of this pretty young American. How dare she come over to Italy to study and have fun!!! We'll be idiots and show the world just how stupid and petty we can be!!!

When we're done, no foreigner in their right mind will go to school in Perugia!

This might be a bit of an aside but does Seattle have that type of relationship with sailors? Norfolk did from the 1940s to the 1970s.

 

[Numbers]

Well, Guede was shopping for mitigating circumstances, the one that looks most important to Borsini and Belardi seems to be:

Google translate:

It must also be remembered that the GUEDE was the only one, albeit in a somewhat fanciful reconstruction of the facts, indicating the perpetrators.

Thus, Guede was rewarded with a reduction in sentence for his false agreement with the prosecutor's wrongful accusations against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. And this, it must be remembered, is not to be considered a plea bargain; it is a reduction for mitigating circumstances in a fast-track trial.