South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Grizzly Bear]

I think removing the Confederate Flag from the capital building there was more than appropriate given the reason it was initially raised.

I'm not crazy about the weirdness of every store outlet trying to ban it out of existence... and changing every headstone. History happened... The confederate army lost the Civil War... people who want to use it personally should have the ability to exercise that freedom of speech, but it has no business identifying sovereignty at the state or federal level.

I'm more worried that if it gets banned outright as we try to erase its presence it's almost like we're trying to forget history, and I don't like that idea for the simple fact that ignorance leads to repeating old mistakes

 

[jimbob]

I think removing the Confederate Flag from the capital building there was more than appropriate given the reason it was initially raised.

I'm not crazy about the weirdness of every store outlet trying to ban it out of existence... and changing every headstone. History happened... The confederate army lost the Civil War... people who want to use it personally should have the ability to exercise that freedom of speech, but it has no business identifying sovereignty at the state or federal level.

I'm more worried that if it gets banned outright as we try to erase its presence it's almost like we're trying to forget history, and I don't like that idea for the simple fact that ignorance leads to repeating old mistakes

I don't think that is going to happen, as that would almost certainly be against the First Amendment

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I don't think that is going to happen, as that would almost certainly be against the First Amendment

This case isn't so much a government intervention issue as it is a merchant issue. Big name merchants have ceased sales of the flag which "if" it gets to a sufficient point could make it a rare item. Whatever... I don't care much about the flag outside of state-level sponsorship, but I viewed the retailer response as over the top... just my opinion

 

[Giordano]

I think removing the Confederate Flag from the capital building there was more than appropriate given the reason it was initially raised.

I'm not crazy about the weirdness of every store outlet trying to ban it out of existence... and changing every headstone. History happened... The confederate army lost the Civil War... people who want to use it personally should have the ability to exercise that freedom of speech, but it has no business identifying sovereignty at the state or federal level.

I'm more worried that if it gets banned outright as we try to erase its presence it's almost like we're trying to forget history, and I don't like that idea for the simple fact that ignorance leads to repeating old mistakes

I think you can rest assured. I don't know of any form of non-government political speech that is legally banned in the USA, whether this "speech" is literal or symbolic. It is even legal for the KKK and the Nazi's to have private or public meetings and demonstrations, and they can (and have) said quite atrocious things at these rallies. I think this is fair enough, so long as I am allowed to reach my own conclusions as to the intelligence and morality of the participants.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Racism goes away when you stop making it an issue.

Just like terrorism. And segregation. Especially segregation. It wasn't a problem until people started making a fuss.

No. That's idiotic. The surest way to ensure the continuance of certain attitudes is to pretend they don't exist, don't matter, or have no actual effect.

My friends know this.

How long did it take you to berate them into that attitude?

 

[Giordano]

This case isn't so much a government intervention issue as it is a merchant issue. Big name merchants have ceased sales of the flag which "if" it gets to a sufficient point could make it a rare item. Whatever... I don't care much about the flag outside of state-level sponsorship, but I viewed the retailer response as over the top... just my opinion

It's free enterprise! Don't try to sell a weasel sandwich if you are also in the business of selling Big Macs and if you think that the former will depress sales of the later. Retailers often have a keen sense of what is likely to be poisonous for their market, and often have changed symbols that were previously acceptable to new ones as the customers' perception changes. Check out the changes in the Aunt Jemima image over time, for example.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Just like terrorism. And segregation. Especially segregation. It wasn't a problem until people started making a fuss.

No. That's idiotic. The surest way to ensure the continuance of certain attitudes is to pretend they don't exist, don't matter, or have no actual effect.




How long did it take you to berate them into that attitude?

It's a popular meme among Fox News watchers. They believe that the racism is purposely instigated by black people so that they can get special treatment.
IE.. if black people would stop crying about racism, white people wouldn't be racist.

 

[Rare Truth]

The post is quoted and put in a special thread with other nominated posts

you can edit it like a normal post. It just goes into this thread

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273199

Thanks.

 

[Mumbles]

It's a popular meme among Fox News watchers. They believe that the racism is purposely instigated by black people so that they can get special treatment.
IE.. if black people would stop crying about racism, white people wouldn't be racist.

It's of a piece with "blacks are the real racists!" as far as memes go - no real thought put into it, just repeated. Funny thing is, black people have been getting "special treatment" throughout US history, and are asking for it to stop so they don't have to deal with it any more.

 

[Checkmite]

Just to explain:

Mr Upchurch, seams to think if half the country was excluded from voting for a person, it would be the same thing as half the country not voting for the same person. History is not his friend.

"Half the country" didn't need to vote for him; just more than voted for any other candidate.

 

[Checkmite]

I'm more worried that if it gets banned outright as we try to erase its presence it's almost like we're trying to forget history, and I don't like that idea for the simple fact that ignorance leads to repeating old mistakes

Neh, I don't see it that way. I don't think anybody who considers Confederate flag imagery repugnant is trying to forget that the Confederacy ever existed. On the contrary; I believe people are finally, truly remembering the Confederacy and what it was all about for the first time.

 

[SezMe]

This case isn't so much a government intervention issue as it is a merchant issue. Big name merchants have ceased sales of the flag which "if" it gets to a sufficient point could make it a rare item. Whatever... I don't care much about the flag outside of state-level sponsorship, but I viewed the retailer response as over the top... just my opinion

Actually for mom & pop stores, it's a boon. As the big retailers withdraw it, the smaller, local stores can put up a big sign saying, "GET YOUR RACIST SOUTHERN PRIDE FLAG HERE!" It will be available at retail stores for the foreseeable future.

 

[Upchurch]

The post is quoted and put in a special thread with other nominated posts

you can edit it like a normal post. It just goes into this thread

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273199

Man, whoever modified the forum software to add that button must have been a genius. That and the link button. Bet he was good looking too.

 

[SezMe]

Oh, go blow it out your tuba.

 

[RandFan]

I'm more worried that if it gets banned outright as we try to erase its presence it's almost like we're trying to forget history, and I don't like that idea for the simple fact that ignorance leads to repeating old mistakes

*No one has forgotten the Holocaust.

The Swastika is one of the most recognizable icons in the world. In Germany it is only kept in museums.

I would NOT go so far as Germany. I think they have taken censorhsip too far.

That said, your argument is, IMO, baseless.

*Godwin is an observation about the statistical likelihood that a rhetorical device (ad hominem) in order to paint or compare one's behavior or sentiment as abhorrent as Nazism. I make no such claims. Grizzly Bear has made a good faith, if not specious argument, that calls for an analogy in my opinion and this one is apt.

 

[Caper]

Supporters of the flag should have did their best to re-brand it when they had a chance... and they had a long chance. To me it was only ever a flag on the roof of the cool car on Dukes of Hazard..... No one I grew up with knew it meant anything else (eastern Canada).

If people liked the symbol so much and it represented so much to them, even if none of the bad stuff that others took from it... then they should have worked harder to make it mean something else to more people... they didn't.

 

[Caper]

I wonder if the American flag will be next? There is a small tiny little push from certain corners so in 50 year time who knows.....

 

[Caper]

For me, that flag represents an army. Of course, that army was made up primarily of racists, and was fighting in a racist cause, but it was still an army.

Don't fool yourself... they were all made up of racists. But one's side surely had a less racist cause.

 

[Caper]

Also. I think hate groups should start adopting flags of others so we alwaqys have to keep banning flags.

How much hate and how long does the hate have to go on before the flag needs to be banned?

Maybe I'll tweet some ISIS followers to start using the Canadian flag instead of that ugly black one.

 

[RandFan]

Supporters of the flag should have did their best to re-brand it when they had a chance... and they had a long chance. To me it was only ever a flag on the roof of the cool car on Dukes of Hazard..... No one I grew up with knew it meant anything else (eastern Canada).

If people liked the symbol so much and it represented so much to them, even if none of the bad stuff that others took from it... then they should have worked harder to make it mean something else to more people... they didn't.

Having thought about this, I agree. Had those who revered the Confederate Flag had made every opportunity to treat blacks as ordinary America citizens I don't think this would be an issue.

The problem ISN'T the past. It's ISN'T what the flag meant some in the past. The problem is what the flag means today. It represents the continued subjugation and oppression of minorities.