South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Vortigern99]

Oh, I know the claims. It is "heritage, not hate." But what heritage is that? Southern culture? What is the culture of the south represented by the Confederate flag? That rebellious spirit of trying to quit the country when you don't get your own way? As a parent, I call that a "tantrum" and we don't look kindly on the children that do it.

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West. That distinction merits its own regional banner, in the opinion of many who live there. You're welcome to disagree. The Civil War ended 150 years ago; the flag means something different now to those who fly it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I admire the optimism of both sides of this question. They both seem to think that at some iteration of the exchange 'is not!' 'is too!' resolution and agreement will spontaneously occur, despite having not done so for all the previous iterations. Will it be the billionth time? The trillionth? Who can say! But they each seem confident that it's coning soon, maybe just one more post away! Admirable!

 

[pgwenthold]

And they send a clear message about how much they are willing to associate with blacks and what they think of those who do. This might not be the message they intend to send but it is going to be very common.

If say one of their kids brought home a black boy/girl friend what message do you think they would get from it? though I guess they may have raised their kids better than doing that.

The Confederate flag is so offensive to blacks that even Clarence Thomas abandoned his conservative principles and voted with the liberal wing of the supreme court in order to outlaw it.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Don't sweat it Vort, the silly libs on here hate the American flag too.

It's really time to get a new shtick, buddy. Or is a creaky, two-finger "Chopsticks" the only tune you know?

 

[Vortigern99]

And in the immortal words of George Wallace who raised that flag over the capital for the first time, "Segregation now, Segregation forever!"

Clearly the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other though.

The Confederate flag has been used to symbolize hate and oppression, which I and others find unfortunate. But that's not the exclusive, strict, inflexible meaning of the flag.

The Cross is used by the KKK to symbolize white supremacy. But I don't see any outrage expressed when churches everywhere employ the same symbol to mean something else.

 

[pgwenthold]

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West..

Yeah. The culture of the south, even those without slaves, was to take up arms against the United States. They threw a temper tantrum, and when the US wouldn't let the pick up their toys and left, they fought against us.

Proud heritage it is.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West. That distinction merits its own regional banner, in the opinion of many who live there. You're welcome to disagree. The Civil War ended 150 years ago; the flag means something different now to those who fly it.

A fond memory of times of very blatant racism and exclusion as well as terrorist campaigns against the black minority. You know the good old days.

 

[Checkmite]

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West. That distinction merits its own regional banner, in the opinion of many who live there. You're welcome to disagree. The Civil War ended 150 years ago; the flag means something different now to those who fly it.

I could insist that to me the German Nazi flag represents my love for delicious grilled cheese sandwiches. It doesn't matter - to the rest of the world it represents hate, genocide, and all manner of nastiness; they're going to react accordingly if I display it, and I have no business complaining about their refusal to accept my attempt at re-definition.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West. That distinction merits its own regional banner, in the opinion of many who live there. You're welcome to disagree. The Civil War ended 150 years ago; the flag means something different now to those who fly it.

They could come up with a flag that wasn't flown by the Confederacy, which was all about white supremacy. But since they haven't, I guess they shall forever be tied to racism, which is prevalent in the South.

 

[pgwenthold]

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West. That distinction merits its own regional banner

But why use that of the army that fought against the US?

The bad guys, right? The ones who lost, and thankfully so, right? You agree that the confederates were the bad guys of the civil war, right? The Union was on the side of good and right, and the confederacy fought for evil? And they want to use that battle flag to represent their culture?

Why?

 

[Vortigern99]

Don't sweat it Vort, the silly libs on here hate the American flag too.

For the record, I'm deeply liberal and I love the American flag. For me liberalism includes tolerance of differing opinions and viewpoints.

 

[pgwenthold]

T

The Cross is used by the KKK to symbolize white supremacy. But I don't see any outrage expressed when churches everywhere employ the same symbol to mean something else.

They use a burning cross?

 

[thaiboxerken]

What is "Southern" culture? If it's the food, why not fly a flag the depicts a deep fryer?

No, the "Southern" culture represented by the Confederate flag is support of white supremacy.

 

[NoahFence]

Heh. As a matter of fact, you are correct, people like me were definitely instrumental in the confederacy. In fact, the people who organized it repeatedly stated that they were going to war because they wanted to enslave the people like me. It's in the news now because some terrorist walked into a church and murdered nine people like me, in order to terrorize...me, actually. That's exactly why I despise the people who fly that flag.

You know, besides all that stuff though.

 

[DavidJames]

Yes, the culture of the South is distinct from that of the North or the West. That distinction merits its own regional banner, in the opinion of many who live there. You're welcome to disagree. The Civil War ended 150 years ago; the flag means something different now to those who fly it.

I suspect to Roof, when he passed it being flown or on a car, thought, yup, another white brother of mine, I'm not alone, look at everyone else who flys the flag of us white folks.

 

[thaiboxerken]

For the record, I'm deeply liberal and I love the American flag. For me liberalism includes tolerance of differing opinions and viewpoints.

I tolerate the racist flag, but I also reserve the right to call it as such. I also agree that the government should not be flying that flag.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The Confederate flag has been used to symbolize hate and oppression, which I and others find unfortunate. But that's not the exclusive, strict, inflexible meaning of the flag.

When was it anything other than a symbol of slavery and apartheid? They want to reminisce on the good old days when a nice young man could attend a lynching and no one would think any less of him, with out ever admitting and acknowledging that.

It was the KKK and other racist elements that made it a symbol of the south, so why shouldn't I associate it with them? It has always been inextricably linked to racism and white supremacy.

 

[Checkmite]

For the record, I'm deeply liberal and I love the American flag. For me liberalism includes tolerance of differing opinions and viewpoints.

I'm tolerant of peoples' right to religion; but I'll still fight the erection of a crucifix or a ten-commandments monument on government property.

 

[Cleon]

The Confederate flag has been used to symbolize hate and oppression, which I and others find unfortunate.

You've got it backwards. It symbolized hate and oppression before "non-racist" Southerners tried to associate it with "Southern culture."

The Cross is used by the KKK to symbolize white supremacy. But I don't see any outrage expressed when churches everywhere employ the same symbol to mean something else.

Same deal; the cross was around and widely used long before the KKK. Conversely, the Confederate flag was not around before the Confederacy.

 

[ponderingturtle]

They could come up with a flag that wasn't flown by the Confederacy, which was all about white supremacy. But since they haven't, I guess they shall forever be tied to racism, which is prevalent in the South.

Hell they could probably pick one that was, but hasn't been used by racists as their symbol for 150 years and have better success with that.