South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[kajata]

Seriously? People are back to this idiotic race card whine about the Confederate flag?

It's like those jerks who pull out the anti-semitism card when discussing the Holocaust.

 

[Walter Ego]

This was just five years ago.

South Carolina's Secession Ball

 

[grunion]

Seriously? People are back to this idiotic race card whine about the Confederate flag? And it's trendy now because one lunatic white supremacist went nuts? As if ranting about the flag has any connection?

seriouslyreallyreallyseriouslyreally?

All hail the PC Gestapo, who will tell you what something means even if it doesn't, cuz there's their opinion and the wrong one. And if you disagree, you are a racist and to be vilified in classic PC race card passive aggressive fashion. Sieg heil!

Can you please unpack these code words for us? Specifically what do you mean by:
"race card"
"PC Gestapo"

The terms are thrown around a lot but are very vague, and thus I don't understand your argument that the Confederate Flag should continue to be honored on the grounds of the South Carolina Capitol (if that is indeed your position.)

 

[pgwenthold]

Speaking of the Confederate flag, I didn't see any mention the recent Supreme Court ruling about the flag on Texas license plate. The case was significant not so much in that the court upheld that Texas doesn't have to put the confederate flag on a license plate if it doesn't want to (the ruling is that the license plates are the state's plates, not individuals), but that Clarence Thomas ruled with the majority and not with Scalia.

 

[RandFan]

People are back to this idiotic race card whine about the Confederate flag?

It's like those jerks who pull out the anti-semitism card when discussing the Holocaust.

Kills me.

 

[Mumbles]

Speaking of the Confederate flag, I didn't see any mention the recent Supreme Court ruling about the flag on Texas license plate. The case was significant not so much in that the court upheld that Texas doesn't have to put the confederate flag on a license plate if it doesn't want to (the ruling is that the license plates are the state's plates, not individuals), but that Clarence Thomas ruled with the majority and not with Scalia.

He does that sometimes.

As to the ruling, first, Virginia will be dropping *their* battle flag license plates.

Second, they're gonna clap back.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Don't worry. People can still put the flag on their personal property. This the racists can fly it on their own.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Don't worry. People can still put the flag on their personal property. This the racists can fly it on their own.

But it's not the same: the one thing that true rebels want is official endorsement by the government.

 

[Checkmite]

As an American I can't help feeling a swell of pride watching support for this hideous standard of bigotry plummet as my countrymen rise up together to collectively call BS on decades-old intelligence-insulting balderdash about "heritage" and "honoring the dead" by displaying the symbols of the failed "country" they fought for while conveniently ignoring the fact that country was founded upon the principle that all humans are not equally entitled to the benefits of free citizenship. For far too long we have been made to suffer the public display of this shibboleth of race-hate under the comical pretext of fairness and historical reverence and the ludicrous idea that the Americans of today should honor, or be respectfully silent while others honor, the "spirit" of these men who fought and died in an attempt to separate themselves from our nation so that the more well-off and powerful amongst them could be free to continue owning black people like livestock without negative consequences.

 

[Vortigern99]

I agree the Confederate battle flag/memorial banner should be removed from public institutions and government works. But labeling every person who flies it as racist and hateful is a mistake. The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture, without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy. It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame, but not every person who displays the flag feels that way. It's more complicated than that.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I agree the Confederate battle flag/memorial banner should be removed from public institutions and government works. But labeling every person who flies it as racist and hateful is a mistake. The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture, without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy. It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame, but not every person who displays the flag feels that way. It's more complicated than that.

I disagree. It is a flag that was flown by people that fought for the right to own slaves.

 

[Checkmite]

I disagree. It is a flag that was flown by people that fought for the right to own slaves.

Not merely flown by them - designed by them, explicitly for use while so fighting.

If someone wants to show "regional pride" that's fine; please pick a symbol that wasn't made by slavers fighting for slavery. Otherwise, deal with the results. Nobody willfully flying this flag has the right to complain that they're being unfairly associated with slavery and white supremacism.

 

[Cleon]

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." - Alexander Stephens

Whatever your personal beliefs, when you raise the Rebel Flag, that's what you're standing with.

 

[DavidJames]

I agree the Confederate battle flag/memorial banner should be removed from public institutions and government works. But labeling every person who flies it as racist and hateful is a mistake. The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture, without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy. It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame, but not every person who displays the flag feels that way. It's more complicated than that.

Here is a great commentary on that.

 

[pgwenthold]

But labeling every person who flies it as racist and hateful is a mistake.

True. A lot of them are just clueless morons.

The flag can stand for a kind of regional patriotism and pride in Southern culture,

How does the battle flag of the Confederate army stand for Southern culture?

without necessarily indicating support for white supremacy.

White supremacy is certainly part of Southern culture, so how do you separate that? Especially considering that the flag was the symbol of attempting to enforce that white supremacy?

It's been used by extremists to symbolize hatred and the desire to oppress, which is a damn shame,

What is a damn shame? That extremists want to hate and oppress? Or that the battle flag of the confederacy is used as a symbol for it? How is the latter a shame? In fact, that is exactly what that flag was used to symbolize, and they are merely reflecting what it represented.

Why is it a shame that the symbolism of the battle flag of the army that fought against the US to preserve the institution of slavery is used as a symbol of white supremacy? The real shame is in the people who are think that by saying it doesn't really mean that makes it so.

If you want a symbol of the culture of the south, make chitlins. If you want regional pride, use a flag of the state. But don't fly the confederate flag and claim that it symbolizes your love for Nascar.

 

[Vortigern99]

I disagree. It is a flag that was flown by people that fought for the right to own slaves.

Yes, I understand that. But the average Confederate soldier -- poor, apolitical, under-educated -- had no stake in that claim. Able-bodied Southerners who didn't fight in the war were hunted down and executed. If they fought under the battle flag it doesn't mean they supported slavery. Today the Confederate flag is used as a symbol of the South, not as a continuation of an unjust rebellion fought and lost 15 decades ago. To you the flag symbolizes hatred and racial oppression, and I understand and acknowledge that. But to many of those who fly it, the flag represents a kind of scrappy individualism and pride in one's culture of birth. You don't get to tell people what their symbol means. It's up to them to decide.

I don't fly the flag and never will. But some of my relatives do -- people who are not racist or hateful towards African-Americans -- and I'm defending their right to do so.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Not merely flown by them - designed by them, explicitly for use while so fighting.

If someone wants to show "regional pride" that's fine; please pick a symbol that wasn't made by slavers fighting for slavery. Otherwise, deal with the results. Nobody willfully flying this flag has the right to complain that they're being unfairly associated with slavery and white supremacism.

Correct. It is even worse than a swastika because the swastika was a symbol hijacked by the Nazis from a different culture.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Yes, I understand that. But the average Confederate soldier -- poor, apolitical, under-educated -- had no stake in that claim. Able-bodied Southerners who didn't fight in the war were hunted down and executed. If they fought under the battle flag it doesn't mean they supported slavery. Today the Confederate flag is used as a symbol of the South, not as a continuation of an unjust rebellion fought and lost 15 decades ago. To you the flag symbolizes hatred and racial oppression, and I understand and acknowledge that. But to many of those who fly it, the flag represents a kind of scrappy individualism and pride in one's culture of birth. You don't get to tell people what their symbol means. It's up to them to decide.

I don't fly the flag and never will. But some of my relatives do -- people who are not racist or hateful towards African-Americans -- and I'm defending their right to do so.

If they are flying the flag, they are racist or stupid. I defend their right to be racist or stupid, though. But I also defend my right to state that they are racist or stupid for flying the flag.

Oh, and I do get to tell them what their flag symbolizes because it was widely used to symbolize the fight for slavery rights.

 

[DavidJames]

Yes, I understand that. But the average Confederate soldier -- poor, apolitical, under-educated -- had no stake in that claim. Able-bodied Southerners who didn't fight in the war were hunted down and executed. If they fought under the battle flag it doesn't mean they supported slavery. Today the Confederate flag is used as a symbol of the South, not as a continuation of an unjust rebellion fought and lost 15 decades ago. To you the flag symbolizes hatred and racial oppression, and I understand and acknowledge that. But to many of those who fly it, the flag represents a kind of scrappy individualism and pride in one's culture of birth. You don't get to tell people what their symbol means. It's up to them to decide.

I don't fly the flag and never will. But some of my relatives do -- people who are not racist or hateful towards African-Americans -- and I'm defending their right to do so.

They may not be racists or hateful, but in terms of what they display to the world, they are in lock step with those that are.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Another irony is a bunch of people ordering those who celebrate rebellion to stop doing so, and expecting them to change.