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Split Thread Michael Brown and Katrina

Until Friday afternoon, Katrina was projected to hit Florida mid-panhandle. Florida, along with Alabama, and Mississippi, and Georgia, South and North Carolina, Kentucky and Tennessee, is in FEMA Region IV. Louisiana, along with Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico, is in FEMA Region VI. So the change in path as noted by COL (Ret) Jeff Smith from Louisiana's Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness did change things 56 hours out. Also, prepositioning is commodities, not contractors. Prepositioning was also limited by the Stafford Act; the prepositioning for Sandy was made possible by the Post-Katrina Reform Act (see Emergency Management magazine, Mar 12, 2013).
Finally, can you point me to where in COL (Ret) Jeff Smith's testimony he says that lack of FEMA transportation assets cost lives? You know, he was the Deputy Director For Emergency Preparedness with the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness during Katrina, and testified and all. Surely if lives were lost because FEMA did not provide transportation he would have said something, or it would have been somewhere in his criticism?

Also, I have not seen a single piece of evidence from you that ANYONE "ignored the warning".
Really? Okay, how about "token effort", would THAT suffice?

wiki said:
It has been stated in the evacuation order that, beginning at noon on August 28 and running for several hours, all city buses were redeployed to shuttle local residents to, "refuges of last resort," designated in advance, including the Louisiana Superdome.[6] They also said that the state had prepositioned enough food and water to supply 15,000 citizens with supplies for three days, the anticipated waiting period before FEMA would arrive in force and provide supplies for those still in the city.[6] Later, it was found that FEMA had provided these supplies, but that FEMA Director Michael D. Brown was greatly surprised by the much larger numbers of people who turned up seeking refuge and that the first wave of supplies were quickly depleted.[6] The large numbers were a direct result of the insufficient mobilization and evacuation before Katrina's arrival, primarily due to city and state resistance to issuing an evacuation order and risk "crying wolf" and losing face should the hurricane had left the path of model prediction. Had contra-flow on highways been initiated sooner and more buses begun evacuating families (including the idle school buses that were not used at all) the numbers of stranded New Orleans occupants would have been significantly less making the initial wave of FEMA supplies adequate and even excessive.
Brown was ******* surprised. "Surprised". Never mind that a CAT 5 hurricane hitting NO was at the top of HIS agencies list. He was "surprised". He was surprised because he is incompetent or he is obfuscating.
 
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If you read COL (Ret) Jeff Smith's testimony, he was clearly surprised at the numbers at the Superdome and Convention Center as well. Is he incompetent or obfuscating as well?
 
If you read COL (Ret) Jeff Smith's testimony, he was clearly surprised at the numbers at the Superdome and Convention Center as well. Is he incompetent or obfuscating as well?
{sigh}

Is Col (Ret) Jeff Smith capable of reading?



There was no mystery here. Only those who see only what they want to see. This was a FEMA prediction. To pretend you don't know your own prediction is to stick your head up your ass and pretend that you didn't.

Look, if it were a different agency that had predicted the outcome you might have a point. It wasn't You don't. I don't give a rat's ass about Jeff Smith. I care that we were warned. I care that we did nothing.
 
The president's actions authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA, to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering cause by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of catastrophe.
We couldn't even resuce critically ill patients from a hospital.

1 year. We know for a fact that we had 1 year to prepare for this disaster. What did we do? Anyone? 1,800 people died. Does anyone know of anything substantive (not BS rhetoric) that we did to avert this catastrophe.
 
It was not a prediction; it was the Hurricane Pam exercise. COL (Ret) Jeff Smith participated in it and discussed in his testimony how LOHSEP modified their plans based on it. Yet he still was clearly surprised by the numbers at the Superdome. So I ask you again, is COL (Ret) Jeff Smith, the Louisiana Deputy Director for Emergency Preparedness, incompetent or obfuscating?
 
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It damn sure WAS a prediction. Look at the time line. It's a full year before Katrina.

Zrd4BL5.jpg


Look at the first line of the 4th paragraph of the article.

"When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched."

This was a warning. A capitalized letter flashing red warning.
 
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Who could know?

Zrd4BL5.jpg


Folks, this was a prediction made by FEMA. How on earth could FEMA have known about FEMA's predictions?
 
Later, it was found that FEMA had provided these supplies, but that FEMA Director Michael D. Brown was greatly surprised by the much larger numbers of people who turned up seeking refuge and that the first wave of supplies were quickly depleted.[6] The large numbers were a direct result of the insufficient mobilization and evacuation before Katrina's arrival, primarily due to city and state resistance to issuing an evacuation order and risk "crying wolf" and losing face
Why do you completely ignore the red words?
 
FTR: I do think Nagin is culpable I just don't think his poor response gets the feds out of hot water.
There was nothing that prevented FEMA from acting to mitigate loss of life. Nothing to keep them from prepositioning significant amounts of resources and primarily transportation. The idea that FEMA could do absolutely nothing until they had authorization from NO is nonsense.

  • A hurricane hit on NO was at the top of FEMA's list of disasters to prepare for.
  • We know it was at the top of the list for one year prior to Katrina.
  • How did FEMA prepare?
If FEMA cannot intervene directly in a state until there has been an emergency declared, what indirect preparation did they do in the event of such a large scale disaster?



KATRINA TIMELINE

Saturday, August 27 FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]
They had at least a year's time to acquire emergency resources and transportation to intercede if the state failed.
 
KATRINA TIMELINE

Saturday, August 27

In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” [National Weather Service]
Read that again and note the date. What did FEMA do at that moment? Did they put their transportation resources into play?

Get ready.....

Though it was well-known that New Orleans, much of it below sea level, would flood in a major hurricane, Landstar, the Jacksonville company that held a federal contract that at the time was worth up to $100 million annually for disaster transportation, did not ask its subcontractor, Carey Limousine, to order buses until the early hours of Aug. 30, roughly 18 hours after the storm hit, according to Sally Snead, a Carey senior vice president who headed the bus roundup.
Okay, now read that again. Please look closely at the dates.

There were NO buses. The contractor didn't have any buses. We paid a contractor $100,000,000 a year to be prepared and we were NOT prepared.

People keep asking "what could FEMA have done? They could have been prepared. They could have carried out emergency evacuation drills and made the contractor demonstrate that our $100,000,000 wasn't being wasted.

  • Brown should have had a plan in place for state support.
  • A contingency if that failed.
  • A contingency if the contingency failed.
So, you tell me, what exactly did we get for our $100,000,000?
 
Still wrong.

Here's how the contract was administered:
To activate the contract, the Emergency Transportation Center (FAA’s Southern Region) must first receive a Mission Assignment from FEMA. A Mission Assignment notifies the Emergency Transportation Center that a service or delivery of goods in support of relief efforts will be needed. It also establishes obligation limits in support of these efforts.
FEMA then submits tasks orders off the Mission Assignment to the Emergency Transportation Center that require specific actions to be taken, such as arranging for trucks to deliver water to a local distribution point.
The Emergency Transportation Center reviews each task order and then forwards it to Landstar for a price quote on the needed services. There are no fixed prices associated with the contract, and each task is separately bid.
For each task order, Landstar solicits bids from transportation subcontractors and sends an initial price quote to the Emergency Transportation Center for performing the task.1 This quote is reviewed and approved by a contracting officer.
Once the quote is approved, Landstar authorizes the selected subcontractors to perform the work required under the task.

The 100M$ was a ceiling for the contract, based on the total value of individual task orders. It was not a lump sum to "be prepared".

Do you hold Johnny Bradberry at all responsible?
 
Still wrong.

Here's how the contract was administered:

The 100M$ was a ceiling for the contract, based on the total value of individual task orders. It was not a lump sum to "be prepared".
Fair enough. Let's get to brass tacks. How did that contract work out for us? The job of FEMA is to be prepared. Did the contract make us prepared?

Do you hold Johnny Bradberry at all responsible?
Rice, Chertoff, Brown, Bush, FEMA, and anyone and everyone who failed.

  • FEMA prepared a list of the most dire risks facing America.
  • A direct hurricane hit on NO was among the most dire.
  • The threat was known for at least 1 year.
  • When we needed FEMA they were not Johny on the Spot.
80,000 were stranded. Bush was on vacation until he returned to work 8/31. Rice was buying shoes. People were dying and the Bush admin could not care less.

You want to argue a fine point of a contract? Okay, how did that contract work out for us? What did the contract do for us, exactly? Why did we have it? Did we ever have an emergency drill to test the contract? I guess we didn't spend all that money. That's good news that profits from death and misery was not as much as I thought.

Heckuva job Brown. Look at all that money we saved.
 
How to run emergency services.

Bob: Chief, there is a house fire at 6th and Elm.
Chief: We have a contract with Dowecheatemandhow for transportation. Please contact them and inform them that we need a fire truck.
Rick: It's Friday, their office just closed. They won't be available until Monday.
Chief: Well, please contact them first thing Monday morning.

Hyperbole?

Here's a sourced timeline of events.

Tell me what sense of urgency Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, anyone in the administration showed in the first 4 days?

Friday, August 26 GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA

Monday, August 29

LATE MORNING — LEVEE BREACHED

MORNING — BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION

11:13 AM CDT – WHITE HOUSE CIRCULATES INTERNAL MEMO ABOUT LEVEE BREACH:

MORNING — BROWN WARNS BUSH ABOUT THE POTENTIAL DEVASTATION OF KATRINA:

8PM CDT — GOV. BLANCO AGAIN REQUESTS ASSISTANCE FROM BUSH: “Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you’ve got.”

LATE PM — BUSH GOES TO BED WITHOUT ACTING ON BLANCO’S REQUESTS

Tuesday, August 30 BUSH RETURNS TO CRAWFORD FOR FINAL NIGHT OF VACATION
Keep in mind, people were dying. People were trapped and scared. A number of patients who were critically ill would be euthanized by the time the ordeal was over.

They are poor people so, as Barbara Bush said, "...so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them.”

A vacation paid for by uncle Sam. It's amazing the ingrates could complain about lack of sanitation and clean water.
 
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Let me repeat the simple questions that you are unable to answer yes or no to:

If you read COL (Ret) Jeff Smith's testimony, he was clearly surprised at the numbers at the Superdome and Convention Center as well. Is he incompetent or obfuscating as well?

Do you hold Johnny Bradberry at all responsible?

I am not sure what all your hysterics about Rice are concerning. Why don't you tell me which ESF you feel she was responsible for, and your criticism of her department's performance of the ESF?

In addition to reading all the previous recommendations, I might recommend you read your own sig.
 
Let me repeat the simple questions that you are unable to answer yes or no to:
As you ignore all of mine?

1If you read COL (Ret) Jeff Smith's testimony, he was clearly surprised at the numbers at the Superdome and Convention Center as well. Is he incompetent or obfuscating as well?

2Do you hold Johnny Bradberry at all responsible?

3I am not sure what all your hysterics about Rice are concerning. Why don't you tell me which ESF you feel she was responsible for, and your criticism of her department's performance of the ESF?

4In addition to reading all the previous recommendations, I might recommend you read your own sig.
1.) What exactly do you think this point demonstrates? Le's assume he's competent and honest. So what? How does that begin to address all of the points I've raised?

2.) Asked and answered.

3.) No one in the admin cared enough to alter their previous plans.

4.) Perhaps you could address my points.

Questions you won't answer:

A.) When did Gov. Blanco request help?

B.) When did Bush respond to Gov Blanco?
 
In addition to reading all the previous recommendations, I might recommend you read your own sig.
Search the forum and you will find that the sig exists for me. It's to me. It's about me. It's for me. I never forget it. I'm human.

However, in this discussion it is not my ego at work here. Frustration that something so obviously bungled.

1st — GOVERNMENT AUDITORS “LAMBAST” SECRETARY CHERTOFF’S RESPONSE TO KATRINA: Congressional investigators on Wednesday lambasted the U.S. government for its response to Hurricane Katrina, saying a lack of a clear chain of command hindered relief efforts and that Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff or another top official should have been the point person on relief efforts. [CBS News, 2/1/06]

MICHAEL BROWN TESTIFIES: Brown called “a little disingenuous” and “just baloney” assertions by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and other top administration officials that they were unaware of the severity of the catastrophe for a day after Katrina struck on Aug. 29. [New York Times, 2/11/06]

GAO REPORT CONCLUDES THAT FEMA’S DISASTER AID PROGRAM IS RIDDLED WITH FRAUD [USA Today, 2/13/06]

CONSERVATIVE CRITICIZES RESPONSE TO KATRINA: Weekly Standard Editor Bill Kristol said that Bush’s handling of the disaster had become “an emblem of the administration that just isn’t as serious about the competent execution of the functions of government as it should be.” [Fox News Sunday, 3/5/06]

SENATE RELEASES 800-PAGE REPORT: The only national bipartisan inquiry in the country faults the Administration for “bungling the storm response by neglecting warnings, failing to grasp Katrina’s destructiveness, doing too little or taking the wrong steps before the Aug. 29 landfall.” [hsgac.senate.gov, 4/27/06]

U.N. CRITICIZES THE U.S. FOR FAILING TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THE POOR: A panel of 18 UN poverty experts said it was concerned that the poor, especially African-Americans, “were disadvantaged by the rescue and evacuation plans implemented when Hurricane Katrina hit the United States of America.” [Mississippi Sun Herald, 7/28/06]
 
In addition to reading all the previous recommendations, I might recommend you read your own sig.
Search the forum and you will find that the sig exists for me. It's to me. It's about me. It's for me. I never forget it. I'm human.

However, in this discussion it is not my ego at work here. It's frustration that something so obviously bungled could even be defended.

1st — GOVERNMENT AUDITORS “LAMBAST” SECRETARY CHERTOFF’S RESPONSE TO KATRINA: Congressional investigators on Wednesday lambasted the U.S. government for its response to Hurricane Katrina, saying a lack of a clear chain of command hindered relief efforts and that Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff or another top official should have been the point person on relief efforts. [CBS News, 2/1/06]

MICHAEL BROWN TESTIFIES: Brown called “a little disingenuous” and “just baloney” assertions by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and other top administration officials that they were unaware of the severity of the catastrophe for a day after Katrina struck on Aug. 29. [New York Times, 2/11/06]

GAO REPORT CONCLUDES THAT FEMA’S DISASTER AID PROGRAM IS RIDDLED WITH FRAUD [USA Today, 2/13/06]

CONSERVATIVE CRITICIZES RESPONSE TO KATRINA: Weekly Standard Editor Bill Kristol said that Bush’s handling of the disaster had become “an emblem of the administration that just isn’t as serious about the competent execution of the functions of government as it should be.” [Fox News Sunday, 3/5/06]

SENATE RELEASES 800-PAGE REPORT: The only national bipartisan inquiry in the country faults the Administration for “bungling the storm response by neglecting warnings, failing to grasp Katrina’s destructiveness, doing too little or taking the wrong steps before the Aug. 29 landfall.” [hsgac.senate.gov, 4/27/06]

U.N. CRITICIZES THE U.S. FOR FAILING TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THE POOR: A panel of 18 UN poverty experts said it was concerned that the poor, especially African-Americans, “were disadvantaged by the rescue and evacuation plans implemented when Hurricane Katrina hit the United States of America.” [Mississippi Sun Herald, 7/28/06]
 
These are yes or no questions:

If you read COL (Ret) Jeff Smith's testimony, he was clearly surprised at the numbers at the Superdome and Convention Center as well. Is he incompetent or obfuscating as well? This is relevant as apparently Brown's surprise is evident that he is incompetent or obfuscating. I am asking if this is true, then do you feel the same about COL (Ret) Jeff Smith, the the Louisiana Deputy Director for Emergency Preparedness>

Do you hold Johnny Bradberry at all responsible? You have not given a simple direct answer to this.

The questions that you claim I won't answer are ones that you have literally just asked me for the first time.

PS, FEMA is not like your local fire department. Perhaps this is the source of your misunderstanding. Again, please read up on FEMA and its mission and role. I have referred you previously to the testimony of Bill Carwile, Scott Wells, and Phil Parr.
 
As for those now famous FEMA buses....

Anyone know when FEMA finally had a plan in place? Any guess?

Saturday, September 3 FEMA FINALIZES BUS REQUEST: “FEMA ended up modifying the number of buses it thought it needed to get the job done, until it settled on a final request of 1,335 buses at 8:05 p.m. on Sept. 3. The buses, though, trickled into New Orleans, with only a dozen or so arriving the first day.” [Wall Street Journal, 9/13/05]

A plan that was supposed to be in place prior to the emergency didn't come to fruation until a weak later.

No reason to criticize FEMA though.
 
Perhaps you ought to read the 800-page report that you referenced; it contains gems like this:
The Committee believes that leadership failures needlessly compounded these losses. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco – who knew the limitations of their resources to address a catastrophe – did not specify those needs adequately to the federal government before landfall. For example, while Governor Blanco stated in a letter to President Bush, two days before landfall, that she anticipated the resources of the state would be overwhelmed, she made no specific request for assistance in evacuating the known tens of thousands of people without means of transportation, and a senior State official identified no unmet needs in response to a federal offer of assistance the following day. The State’s transportation secretary also ignored his responsibilities under the state’s emergency operations plan, leaving no arm of the State government prepared to obtain and deliver additional transportation to those in New Orleans who lacked it when Katrina struck. In view of the long-standing role of requests as a trigger for action by higher levels of government, the State bears responsibility for not signaling its needs to the federal government more clearly.
...

Post-Storm Evacuation
Overwhelmed by Katrina, the city and state turned to FEMA for help. On Monday, Governor Blanco asked Brown for buses, and Brown assured the state the same day that 500 buses were en route to assist in the evacuation of New Orleans and would arrive within hours. In spite of Brown’s assurances and the state’s continued requests over the course of the next two days, FEMA did not direct the U.S. Department of Transportation to send buses until very early on Wednesday, two days after landfall. The buses did not begin to arrive until Wednesday evening, and not in significant numbers until Thursday. Concerned over FEMA’s delay in providing buses – and handicapped by the Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development’s utter failure to make any preparation to carry out its lead role for evacuation under the state’s emergency plan – Governor Blanco directed members of her office to begin locating buses on Tuesday and approved an effort to commandeer school buses for evacuation on Wednesday. But these efforts were too little, too late. Tens of thousands of people were forced to wait in unspeakably horrible conditions until as late as Saturday to be evacuated.
....

• The City of New Orleans, with primary responsibility for evacuation of its citizens, had language in its plan stating the city’s intent to assist those who needed transportation for pre-storm evacuation, but had no actual plan provisions to implement that intent. In late 2004 and 2005, city officials negotiated contracts with Amtrak, riverboat owners, and others to pre-arrange transportation alternatives, but received inadequate support from the City’s Director of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, and contracts were not in place when Katrina struck. As Katrina approached, notwithstanding the city’s evacuation plans on paper, the best solution New Orleans had for people without transportation was a private-citizen volunteer carpool initiative called Operation Brothers’ Keepers and transit buses taking people – not out of the city, but to the Superdome. While the Superdome provided shelter from the devastating winds and water, conditions there deteriorated quickly. Katrina’s “near miss” ripped the covering off the roof, caused leaking, and knocked out the power, rendering the plumbing, air conditioning, and public announcement system totally useless.
• The Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD), whose Secretary had personally accepted departmental responsibility under the state’s emergency operations plan to arrange for transportation for evacuation in emergencies, had done nothing to prepare for that responsibility prior to Katrina. While the Secretary attempted to defend his inaction in a personal appearance before the Committee, the Committee found his explanations rang hollow, and his account of uncommunicated doubts and objections to state policy disturbing. Had his Department identified available buses or other means of transport for evacuation within the state in the months before the hurricane, at a minimum the state would have been prepared to evacuate people stranded in New Orleans after landfall more quickly than it did.
•FEMA and the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), charged under the NRP with supporting state and local government transportation needs (including evacuation) in emergencies, did little to plan for the possibility that they would be called on to assist with post-landfall evacuation needs, despite being on notice for over a month before Katrina hit that the state and local governments needed more buses and drivers – and being on notice for years that tens of thousands of people would have no means to evacuate.

You seem to be blaming FEMA to the exclusion of the state and local agencies, which is not what the report said. Read your own citations.
 
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