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Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Vixen said:
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5.12.2007


The judges said they had concluded that Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito were together at 8.40 on the evening of November 1 and spent the night and the following morning together. The kitchen knife found at Mr Sollecito’s flat was almost certainly the murder weapon, and had been cleaned with bleach in an attempt to wash off blood.

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Do you agree, or do you not, bleach featured prominantly in this case?

Would you claim no bleach at all was associated with this crime?
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The judges said they had concluded that Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito were together at 8.40 on the evening of November 1....... true.

....and spent the night and the following morning together........ true.

The kitchen knife found at Mr Sollecito’s flat was almost certainly the murder weapon....... false, although this falsehood was probably said to Richard Owen.

and had been cleaned with bleach....... could very well be true.

in an attempt to wash off blood........ false, although this falsehood was probably said to Richard Owen. Further if true, it was not an "attempt", it was completely successful. Indeed, it since DNA is more susceptible to being destroyed with bleach than blood is, the real issue is that if blood had been successfully cleaning, the DNA would NOT have remained.
 
Vixen said:
Seems odd. Why would the police lie about it. The smell of bleach is not something you can mistake?
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That's a great question. The receipts you pointed to clearly did not record the purchase of bleach. Yet SOMEONE lied about it, and even posted the pictures of themselves, unaware they were catching themselves in the lie.

Why?
 
Vixen said:
17.11.2007 Richard Owen TIMES
Police said that the cleaning lady at Mr Sollecito’s flat had testified that two empty containers of bleach found there had not been bought or used by her. The investigators’ supposition is that the bleach was used to clean the kitchen knife, and Mr Sollecito’s trainers, which match bloody footprints at the cottage, but on which no traces of either blood or DNA were found.

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25.11.2007

It has also emerged that when postal police arived at the cottage the next morning to investigate two mobile phones found in a nearby garden and found Ms Kercher’s body after breaking down her bedroom door, they also found Ms Kercher’s clothes in the washing machine. Reports said the police heard the washing machine spinning to the end of its cycle as they arrived at the cottage at 1235. They also found that the cottage - apart from Ms Kercher’s bedroom and the shared bathroom - had been “thoroughly cleaned with bleach”.

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20.11.2007

The position of Mr Sollecito is unclear, though he is increasingly described in the Italian media as someone who “aided and abetted” the crime. The kitchen knife allegedly used to kill Ms Kercher, which has both Ms Kercher’s and Ms Knox’s DNA on it, was found at his flat, and a bloody footprint in Ms Kercher’s bedroom reportedly maches his Nike trainers, which had been washed and cleaned with bleach.
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5.12.2007


The judges said they had concluded that Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito were together at 8.40 on the evening of November 1 and spent the night and the following morning together. The kitchen knife found at Mr Sollecito’s flat was almost certainly the murder weapon, and had been cleaned with bleach in an attempt to wash off blood.

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Do you agree, or do you not, bleach featured prominantly in this case?

Would you claim no bleach at all was associated with this crime?
Click to expand...

This is not responsive. The question is did the police find receipts for bleach as reported by Richard Owen.

ETA: Repost of RoseMontaque's post for your convenience
RoseMontague said:
The testimony of the nice detective that went out to investigate this showed that those were from a batch sold prior to October, not to mention the store had no bleach receipts in the records for that day and none of the employees remembered selling it to AK or RS, in fact they didn't even see them the days following the murder, which is what Quint told the nice detective as well.
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Again, did the police find receipts for bleach as reported by Richard Owen?
 
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Vixen said:
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Do you agree, or do you not, bleach featured prominantly in this case?
Click to expand...

NO, NO, NO, NO!!! I do NOT agree. I'd say that "bleach" is associated with FALSE stories written by Richard Owens about the case. As for the case itself NO. IN fact NO credible evidence that bleach was used at the crime scene was EVER presented.

Vixen said:
Would you claim no bleach at all was associated with this crime?
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YES YES YES. Did any scientists say that the knife was cleaned with bleach? Nope
 
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Vixen said:
Seems odd. Why would the police lie about it. The smell of bleach is not something you can mistake?
Click to expand...

What's odd is that you post a link to a site where the collected receipts are displayed, analysed and shown not to be for bleach and to have multiple dates, none of which apply to the case.

You must either withdraw your claim or post some real evidence in the form of actual receipts for bleach or, minimally, a reference to them in court reports.

Also, for the washing machine.
 
Katody Matrass said:
Kauffer, you're so cruel :)
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OK, guys, the bleach.


The Bleach
When Raffaele Sollecito's apartment was searched, the police reported that it smelled strongly of bleach.[28] During the search two bottles of bleach were found under the kitchen sink. The police interviewed Natalia, who had taken over the job of cleaning Raffaele's apartment from his previous maid.[29] Natalia started cleaning the apartment in September and said she had never seen the bleach. Additionally when she took over the job from the previous maid, she was told to never use bleach.[30]
The police also interviewed Kiriboga, Natalia's predecessor, who, originally told the police that she knew nothing about the bleach.[31] After meeting with Raffaele's lawyer Kiriboga changed her story, saying that the bleach had been at Raffaele's apartment when she used to work there and she had purchased it.[32] When the police asked why she had changed her story, she claimed that she had not remembered the bleach, and that it was only when Raffaele's lawyer asked her about it that the memory came back to her.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Evidence

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Oreste Volturno was the police officer who testified to several matters:
He was involved with the search of Raffaele Sollecito's apartment on November 8 and November 16 2007. Volturno testified that the apartment smelled of bleach when opened on November 8th after being closed for the three days prior due to Sollecito's arrest.Jump to Bleach Smell in Testimony Two bottles of bleach were seized from Sollecito's apartment on November 16th.
Volturno also spoke to Natalia who did the cleaning at Sollecito's until his arrest. She stated that no bleach was present and would later testify that she was specifically instructed to not use bleach when she took over the job of cleaning from her friend Kiriboga who was pregnant. Kiriboga originally also said she did not know anything about the bleach but during a second interview she changed her story claiming she had used the bleach before. When Volturno asked why she said the opposite before Kiriboga explained that she did not remember the bleach and it was only while being interviewed by Sollecito's lawyer that she suddenly remembered the bleach. Jump to relevant part of testimony
The search of Raffaele Sollecito's apartment led to the discovery of two bottles of bleach and Oreste Volturno attempted to discover the origins of this bleach by visiting merchants in the vicinity of Sollecito's apartment but he was unable to locate where or when the bleach was purchased. The defence proposed that the bleach was purchased before mid-October because of the price being the old manufacturer's suggested price which changed Oct 11 2007 although this is a specious argument since the bleach could also have been old stock still on the shelf on Nov 2.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Oreste_Volturno's_Testimony_(English)

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Vixen said:
OK, guys, the bleach.

...

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The topic is the bleach receipts. This is incredibly simple. I have reached the limit of what words I could use to make it any clearer.

Did the police find receipts for bleach as reported by Richard Owen?

No one is refusing to address any additional points you might like to make on the subject of bleach, but right now there is a simple question that you have been asked to answer based on your claims about the existence of bleach receipts:

Did the police find receipts for bleach as reported by Richard Owen?
 
Bottle of Bleach

Nick Squires TELEGRAPH
But police checks on his background revealed a darker side to Sollecito, who had a lifelong obsession with knives and swords, which he collected, and always carried a flick-knife in his pocket.
He described himself on an internet blog as someone who liked to try "risky things" and was sometimes "totally crazy", and he was a collector of Japanese manga comics, known for their extreme violence and rape fantasies.
Sollecito also appeared to have a taste for the macabre – he had visited the site of the Nazi concentration camp at Dachau in Germany and posted photographs on the internet of himself posing as a cross between a mummy and a mad doctor, with a meat cleaver in one hand and a bottle of bleach in the other.
A university friend said it was just a prank. "I took that picture and did him up that way," said Angelo Cirillo."I wrapped him in toilet paper."
Sollecito's personal tastes and his callous behaviour after the murder fuelled the prosecution's theory that he and Knox were looking for sexual kicks and tried to force Miss Kercher into an evening of group sex, slashing her throat when she resisted.
Sollecito always denied having any involvement in the murder – he claimed he was at home in his apartment in Perugia that night, smoking marijuana and downloading a film.
But he said his memory of the night was unclear and he could not recall whether Miss Knox was with him or not – even though she told investigators that they had had sex, and she had stayed with him all night.
DNA evidence on a bra strap torn from Miss Kercher linked Sollecito to the crime scene and proved crucial in convicting him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Kercher-trial-Raffaele-Sollecito-profile.html


What's with the bleach, Kauffer?
 
Vixen said:
Nick Squires TELEGRAPH
But police checks on his background revealed a darker side to Sollecito, who had a lifelong obsession with knives and swords, which he collected, and always carried a flick-knife in his pocket.
He described himself on an internet blog as someone who liked to try "risky things" and was sometimes "totally crazy", and he was a collector of Japanese manga comics, known for their extreme violence and rape fantasies.
Sollecito also appeared to have a taste for the macabre – he had visited the site of the Nazi concentration camp at Dachau in Germany and posted photographs on the internet of himself posing as a cross between a mummy and a mad doctor, with a meat cleaver in one hand and a bottle of bleach in the other.
A university friend said it was just a prank. "I took that picture and did him up that way," said Angelo Cirillo."I wrapped him in toilet paper."
Sollecito's personal tastes and his callous behaviour after the murder fuelled the prosecution's theory that he and Knox were looking for sexual kicks and tried to force Miss Kercher into an evening of group sex, slashing her throat when she resisted.
Sollecito always denied having any involvement in the murder – he claimed he was at home in his apartment in Perugia that night, smoking marijuana and downloading a film.
But he said his memory of the night was unclear and he could not recall whether Miss Knox was with him or not – even though she told investigators that they had had sex, and she had stayed with him all night.
DNA evidence on a bra strap torn from Miss Kercher linked Sollecito to the crime scene and proved crucial in convicting him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Kercher-trial-Raffaele-Sollecito-profile.html


What's with the bleach, Kauffer?
Click to expand...

And people wonder why the Knox family garnered the services of a PR firm.....

Nick Squires was a virtual mouthpiece for the lies the police told. In a galactic-journalistic display of laziness, the press simply went to the two kids social media sites and pulled stuff from there. Indeed, if events had conspired differently and Amanda had been killed, and Meredith had been falsely accused they would have found Meredith's social media stuff, dressed as a vampire with fake blood in her teeth - and lazy journalists like Squires would have vilified Meredith in the same way.

Thank you for pulling this out.

BTW - where are the bleach receipts?
 
Vixen said:
Oreste Volturno attempted to discover the origins of this bleach by visiting merchants in the vicinity of Sollecito's apartment but he was unable to locate where or when the bleach was purchased. ​
Click to expand...

Ok - we get it. There was no bleach associated with this crime. Raffaele's Nike's were not cleaned with bleach.

Makes you wonder why people claim otherwise.
 
Vixen said:
Nick Squires TELEGRAPH
But police checks on his background revealed a darker side to Sollecito, who had a lifelong obsession with knives and swords, which he collected, and always carried a flick-knife in his pocket.
He described himself on an internet blog as someone who liked to try "risky things" and was sometimes "totally crazy", and he was a collector of Japanese manga comics, known for their extreme violence and rape fantasies.
Sollecito also appeared to have a taste for the macabre – he had visited the site of the Nazi concentration camp at Dachau in Germany and posted photographs on the internet of himself posing as a cross between a mummy and a mad doctor, with a meat cleaver in one hand and a bottle of bleach in the other.
A university friend said it was just a prank. "I took that picture and did him up that way," said Angelo Cirillo."I wrapped him in toilet paper."
Sollecito's personal tastes and his callous behaviour after the murder fuelled the prosecution's theory that he and Knox were looking for sexual kicks and tried to force Miss Kercher into an evening of group sex, slashing her throat when she resisted.
Sollecito always denied having any involvement in the murder – he claimed he was at home in his apartment in Perugia that night, smoking marijuana and downloading a film.
But he said his memory of the night was unclear and he could not recall whether Miss Knox was with him or not – even though she told investigators that they had had sex, and she had stayed with him all night.
DNA evidence on a bra strap torn from Miss Kercher linked Sollecito to the crime scene and proved crucial in convicting him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Kercher-trial-Raffaele-Sollecito-profile.html


What's with the bleach, Kauffer?
Click to expand...

Vixen said:
Oreste Volturno attempted to discover the origins of this bleach by visiting merchants in the vicinity of Sollecito's apartment but he was unable to locate where or when the bleach was purchased. ​
Click to expand...

This is all entirely non-responsive to the question which I will repeat again below for your convenience:

Did the police find receipts for bleach as reported by Richard Owen?
 
Vixen said:
Oreste Volturno attempted to discover the origins of this bleach by visiting merchants in the vicinity of Sollecito's apartment but he was unable to locate where or when the bleach was purchased.
Click to expand...

So you are now saying there are no bleach receipts.
 
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