Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

That surprises me, not at all.

This was in the news. People wanted to understand who the female suspect was.

You prefer the 'Foxy Knoxy' style reportage?

You don't think reporters should try to provide information the public are clamouring for?

 

[RoseMontague]

Look at it another way, would you keep a receipt that might incriminate you? Do people keep grocery receipts beyond a day or so?

So you are saying there are no bleach receipts.

 

[Wattson]

There are 10,000 pages of court documents, most of them in Italian.

Look at it another way, would you keep a receipt that might incriminate you? Do people keep grocery receipts beyond a day or so?

So now there is no receipt?

 

[Vixen]

I had a thought that the thread might focus on the single issue of the bleach receipts for a bit.

Vixen seems to be under the impression that receipts exist showing the purchase of bleach by Sollecito and/or Knox sometime within a day or so of Kercher's murder. He/She seems to base this on Richard Owen's reporting.

The claim has been made by several people is that no such receipts were found by the police. This claim is based on:
1. Photographs of the actual receipts found by the police. Link: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

2.The fact that receipts for the purchase of bleach would have been significant as evidenced by the fact that the prosecution put on the stand a witness to testify to the purchase of bleach who was not credible.

3. The fact that the receipts were not put into evidence in the trial despite the clear importance that the prosecution put on the idea that AK/RS had purchased bleach following the murder.

4. Information from an Italian news source, la repubblica, quoted by Methos:

English translation
link to post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10667540#post10667540

Some of these claims are easily falsifiable if evidence to their false nature exists. Among the possibilities Vixen could point to places in the court record where information about the bleach receipts was entered as evidence, photographs of the receipts showing the purchase of the bleach on the dates in question, and any current articles by a reputable journalist claiming that the early stories about the bleach receipts were true.

I do not believe that this thread should move on until Vixen responds to the evidence that has been put forth on this issue. The thread bounces around all over the place without a resolution on any issue. This is an opportunity to change this. Vixen seems to believe he/she is correct on this issue. Let's give Vixen a chance to do some research and produce the evidence he/she believes is compelling on this point.[/QUOTE

I agree.

I suggest you revisit the police video of Raf's flat, in the videos library.

 

[RoseMontague]

This was in the news. People wanted to understand who the female suspect was.

You prefer the 'Foxy Knoxy' style reportage?

You don't think reporters should try to provide information the public are clamouring for?

Reporters and newspapers, especially those in the UK, were interested in sensationalizing and sexualizing the case. I'm sure it helped sell a few papers. It's pure yellow journalism.

 

[Dan O.]

Anything is possible Dan but why would she steal from herself?

There's been a breakin, food needs to be replaced, locks need to be repaired, cleaning need done, a police report needs filing. This probably doesn't even add up to the deductable. Just add a couple k in lost cash for all the hastle.

What does Rudy have to be afraid of Dan? He got away Scott free the last time.. (if he did it) So why zero? And while Rudy might not be stupid, he also very well might be. Criminals in fact are very often stupid. All the time we see and read about the stupid criminal who got caught in a chimney, a wall etc. etc. Hell Jimmy Kimmel has had segment making fun of the stupid criminal. It's a frequent spot on the news and other shows. Zero?

Rudy is showing some smarts. Look how he quickly figured out the alarm rock after being surprised by a resident sleeping inside the flat he was trying to burgle. It would be expected that there would be extra patroles watching the place so soon after a significant theft. A burglar might return to the scene but he wouldn't spend the night.

An alternate theory is that the worker stole the money and staged the first breakin. Then found a rube that he snookered out of a 20 and setup to take the fall knowing that the owner would be there early in the morning to effect repairs.

 

[davefoc]

There are 10,000 pages of court documents, most of them in Italian.

Look at it another way, would you keep a receipt that might incriminate you? Do people keep grocery receipts beyond a day or so?

This is the quote from a Richard Owen that you posted:

19.11.2007 TIMES Richard Owen
Police said that further evidence against Mr Sollecito had come to light in the form of receipts from a shop near his flat for bleach, bought on the morning after the murder and allegedly used to clean an 8in kitchen knife and Mr Sollecito’s Nike trainers. The first receipt was timed at 8.30am on November 2, and the second 45 minutes later, suggesting that the first container of bleach had not been sufficient. The bleach was also used to clean up the flat itself.
...

Did the police find bleach receipts or didn't they? Your claim is that "No, Richard Owen is a highly trained top drawer journalist, who writes accurately and objectively."

So did the police feed misinformation to Owen, did he make up the story, or do you believe that the police did find receipts for bleach in Sollecito's apartment? And that for whatever reason you are unable or unwilling to produce any evidence for this except an early story by Richard Owen that you apparently believe is accurate despite the significant evidence to the contrary that has been posted in this thread.

 

[davefoc]

I suggest you revisit the police video of Raf's flat, in the videos library.

Is this a joke? Did the police collect receipts for bleach from Sollecito's apartment or didn't they? If you think they did post the evidence that you believe supports this. This is very simple and another dodge is not a relevant response.

ETA: Don't feel any pressure to respond quickly. Take your time. Look at the video you linked to and point to what in that video supports the idea that receipts for bleach on the days in question exist. Read through the pro-guilt articles and find evidence in them for the existence of these bleach receipts, or look at whatever sources you think might produce evidence of the existence of these receipts. The point is that another quick, non-responsive post by you will not be useful on the issue of the existence of these receipts. The ball is in your court here. People have put forth the reasons they believe those receipts don't exist and have never existed. You disagree. Fine. Show these people why you think they are wrong with a responsive relevant post.

 

[acbytesla]

Which bit is a lie?

A better question is what part of it is the truth? Virtually none of it.

 

[Wattson]

I suggest you revisit the police video of Raf's flat, in the videos library.

Were waiting for the bleach receipts.

 

[Desert Fox]

Were waiting for the bleach receipts.

Haven't we been waiting for these receipts for 8 years?

 

[acbytesla]

There are 10,000 pages of court documents, most of them in Italian.

Look at it another way, would you keep a receipt that might incriminate you? Do people keep grocery receipts beyond a day or so?

Ahhhhhh...so the bleach receipts DON'T EXIST. Is that what you are saying?I

But business will keep register tapes for years. And in today's world of computerized registers, most stores would be able to quickly not only say how many bottle of bleach they sold in the last 5 years, but the exact date and time they sold each of them.

 

[Vixen]

Haven't we been waiting for these receipts for 8 years?

The receipts here
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

look interesting.

So where did the claim come from that the bleach was bought one at a time, within 45". Could it be, cops matched the ACE barcodes with the shop's own EPOS?

 

[Desert Fox]

The receipts here
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

look interesting.

So where did the claim come from that the bleach was bought one at a time, within 45". Could it be, cops matched the ACE barcodes with the shop's own EPOS?

I don't see any receipts for bleach there

 

[RoseMontague]

Is this a joke?

Looks to be some kind of game. These same arguments have been discredited countless times over the years.

 

[Katody Matrass]

The receipts here
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

look interesting.

Do they? Please, share your observations.

 

[Vixen]

Ahhhhhh...so the bleach receipts DON'T EXIST. Is that what you are saying?I

But business will keep register tapes for years. And in today's world of computerized registers, most stores would be able to quickly not only say how many bottle of bleach they sold in the last 5 years, but the exact date and time they sold each of them.

17.11.2007 Richard Owen TIMES
Police said that the cleaning lady at Mr Sollecito’s flat had testified that two empty containers of bleach found there had not been bought or used by her. The investigators’ supposition is that the bleach was used to clean the kitchen knife, and Mr Sollecito’s trainers, which match bloody footprints at the cottage, but on which no traces of either blood or DNA were found.

----

25.11.2007

It has also emerged that when postal police arived at the cottage the next morning to investigate two mobile phones found in a nearby garden and found Ms Kercher’s body after breaking down her bedroom door, they also found Ms Kercher’s clothes in the washing machine. Reports said the police heard the washing machine spinning to the end of its cycle as they arrived at the cottage at 1235. They also found that the cottage - apart from Ms Kercher’s bedroom and the shared bathroom - had been “thoroughly cleaned with bleach”.

------
20.11.2007

The position of Mr Sollecito is unclear, though he is increasingly described in the Italian media as someone who “aided and abetted” the crime. The kitchen knife allegedly used to kill Ms Kercher, which has both Ms Kercher’s and Ms Knox’s DNA on it, was found at his flat, and a bloody footprint in Ms Kercher’s bedroom reportedly maches his Nike trainers, which had been washed and cleaned with bleach.
-------
5.12.2007


The judges said they had concluded that Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito were together at 8.40 on the evening of November 1 and spent the night and the following morning together. The kitchen knife found at Mr Sollecito’s flat was almost certainly the murder weapon, and had been cleaned with bleach in an attempt to wash off blood.

------

Do you agree, or do you not, bleach featured prominantly in this case?

Would you claim no bleach at all was associated with this crime?

 

[Bill Williams]

The receipts here
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/receipts.html

look interesting.

So where did the claim come from that the bleach was bought one at a time, within 45". Could it be, cops matched the ACE barcodes with the shop's own EPOS?

"Interesting" in the sense they have nothing to do with the crime.

"There were five receipts found. All of the receipts are from 2007. They are dated February 11, March 17, March 21, May, and November 4. None of the receipts show that bleach was purchased. The November 4, 2007 receipt was for pizza."

 

[RoseMontague]

Do you agree, or do you not, bleach featured prominantly in this case?

Waiting on the bleach receipts.

 

[Vixen]

Do they? Please, share your observations.

Seems odd. Why would the police lie about it. The smell of bleach is not something you can mistake?