Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Would you provide the name of the book written by Richard Owen? I couldn't find any reference to it on the internet, but perhaps if I had the name or the ISBN number I might be able to find it.

He hasn't put out a book. I merely suggested he should, as an historical record of the development of a murder case.

This is because huge reams of information is missing in the judgments.

 

[Bill Williams]

So what are those two huge bottles of ACE bleach under Raf's sink, as starring in the police video RVBW(?) put up.

His housekeeper testified she did not buy it.

So, it does not trouble you that the cops originally and on-line services for years lied about the presence of bleach receipts?

 

[Bill Williams]

He hasn't put out a book. I merely suggested he should, as an historical record of the development of a murder case.

This is because huge reams of information is missing in the judgments.

Why would court judgements include misinformation collected by journalists? Why would anyone want to read through a catalogue of the mountain of misinformation generated over the years?

 

[Vixen]

Vixen,
Here's a chance for an evidence based response. anglolawyer and RoseMontague have written that the early reporting by Owen on the receipts was false. Are they wrong? Can you produce images of the receipts? Can you show where in the court record the receipts were entered into evidence? You have put forth Richard Owen as a reliable source of information about this case. Was Richard Owen a reliable source of information about the receipts?

Let's get started shall we? All this time, posters here were claiming "Quintavalle (sp?) did not come forward for a year."

But Owen's article is dated within two or three weeks of the murder.

Lie no.1 disposed of.

 

[Wattson]

He hasn't put out a book. I merely suggested he should, as an historical record of the development of a murder case.

This is because huge reams of information is missing in the judgments.

Too bad they didn't have a trial in order for the prosecution to present all of their evidence. Oh, wait....

 

[Desert Fox]

Any evidence of him making Google searches for using bleach to destroyer DNA?
Would be really nice if the police did not manage to destroy most of the data on his hard drive.

Maybe the search could be found on Amanda's hard drive? Maybe if they had not managed to destroy her hard drive as well.

 

[LondonJohn]

Please refer me to the source that shows this.

What??

If there were really in existence till receipts that were found in Sollecito's apartment which showed the purchase of bleach on the morning after the murder, then it's a 100% certainty (not to mention laughably obvious) that they would have been used in the criminal prosecution of Knox and Sollecito. In fact, had such receipts really existed, they would have constituted a massive part of the prosecution's case: they would have essentially proved that either Knox or Sollecito had bought bleach the morning after the murder, while both Knox and Sollecito were claiming they'd slept in fairly late in Sollecito's apartment and that neither of them had bought bleach that day. That bleach receipt - had it actually existed - would have been of immense value to the prosecution, and it would have been equally damning to Knox's/Sollecito's defence.

So it's 100% safe to say that there was no such bleach receipt to enter into evidence in any of the various court trials of Knox and Sollecito. And there are only two possible explanations for that: either 1) the police did at one time have custody of such a receipt, but they managed to lose or destroy it before it could be entered into evidence; or 2) there actually never was such a receipt in the first place.

Neither possible explanation reflects at all well on the "crack" Perugia police, I think you'll agree. But regardless of the police's well-founded reputation for incompetence and malpractice in this case, I think it's still obvious that by far the most likely explanation is that offered by option (2) above.

 

[Vixen]

Rose Montague,

That is too harsh. How about pitiable, befuddled old sod?

Sot, not sod. British hacks did have a tradition of heavy drinking one time.

In fact, what about Eugene O'Neill, Ernest Hemingway, Scott Fitzgerald, Ford Maddox Ford, all raging alcoholics.

You might be libelling Richard Owen, though.

 

[Methos]

The bleach receipts, again?

It looks like Owen (and Nadeau btw.) just re-reported what the "la repubblica" published on Nov 18, 2007: Meredith, svolta sul quarto uomo pronto un altro ordine di arresto:

La squadra Ert (esperti ricerca tracce) venerdì mattina però nel suo monolocale in corso Garibaldi ha trovato due scontrini che comprovano l'acquisto (in momenti diversi e ben prima delle 10) di altrettante confezioni di candeggina Ace il 2 novembre, la mattina dopo l'uccisione di Meredith Kercher.

It's interesting that Owen reports the "bleach receipts" in his article from Nov 19, 2007, because in a later article also dated Nov 18, 2007 titled: "Giallo Perugia, in casa di Sollecito nessuno scontrino del 2 novembre" the "la repubblica" reports:

Mentre la caccia al quarto uomo continua nel massimo riserbo, il giallo di Perugia perde uno dei tasselli che nelle ultime ore erano parsi risolutivi: nei verbali sulla perquisizione in casa di Raffaele Sollecito non ci sono scontrini datati 2 novembre, il giorno dopo l'assassinio della studentessa inglese Meredith Kercher. Di quei due scontrini si era parlato come di uno degli indizi più pesanti a carico del giovane che è in carcere insieme ad Amanda Knox e a Patrick Lumumba Diya, di una prova dell'acquisto in un supermercato di Perugia di due flaconi di candeggina utilizzata per far sparire ogni traccia dell'omicidio.

So even if Owen didn't read the full article, how could he have missed the headline?

 

[Vixen]

That would be a diagonal length of about 10.5 inches



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulder

As the measurements are aproximate, not being of regular shape, then it's within a standard deviation, give or take.

 

[LondonJohn]

Let's get started shall we? All this time, posters here were claiming "Quintavalle (sp?) did not come forward for a year."

But Owen's article is dated within two or three weeks of the murder.

Lie no.1 disposed of.

Again: what???

The police's (false) claim to have discovered bleach receipts is entirely separate from Quintavalle's (incorrect) claim to have seen Knox in his store on in the early morning after the murder. The story the police fed to Owen and others made no suggestion as to where this mythical bleach receipt was actually issued.

Furthermore, the police questioned many local shop managers/owners/workers - including Quintavalle and his staff - in the week or two after the murder. At that point, Quintavalle was shown a photograph of Knox and essentially declared that nobody of that description had been in his shop on the day after the murder. Then, almost a full year later, he had a miraculous episode of memory recall, to the extent that he could even remember what Knox was wearing that morning, the colour of her eyes, and exactly in which direction she headed after leaving his store.

Quintavalle's testimony regarding his alleged sighting of Knox was categorically unreliable and should be wholly disregarded. As the SC report will clearly articulate when it comes out. Whether he was honestly mistaken or whether he was consciously lying will probably never be known for sure. I know which alternative I subscribe to though.

 

[Anode]

Well actually, the longest diagonal across a solid shape of diameter 8x6x6 is sq rt (8² + 6² +6²) = sq rt 136 = 11.7

But we're getting into rather deep semantics now about this rock. One thing's clear though: it certainly could not reasonably be described as a boulder under the generally-accepted definition of that term.

Agreed LJ, I was going to post the same thing but of course was ninja-ed.

And as we all know that would be the diagonal of a rectangular cuboid, say a large brick or concrete block. A rock would have curved edges significantly cutting down on the diagonal measurement...

Why am I even arguing about a rock/boulder/stone???? We all know it's throw-able as proven by Davefoc.

 

[LondonJohn]

Sot, not sod. British hacks did have a tradition of heavy drinking one time.

In fact, what about Eugene O'Neill, Ernest Hemingway, Scott Fitzgerald, Ford Maddox Ford, all raging alcoholics.

You might be libelling Richard Owen, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sod_(insult)

 

[Vixen]

Well actually, the longest diagonal across a solid shape of diameter 8x6x6 is sq rt (8² + 6² +6²) = sq rt 136 = 11.7

But we're getting into rather deep semantics now about this rock. One thing's clear though: it certainly could not reasonably be described as a boulder under the generally-accepted definition of that term.

Well, there you go, then. Just 3mm short, which could have been shaved off as the boulder hit the shutter.

 

[Vixen]

They'd been there for months. IIRC, Sollecito's previous cleaner testified that they'd been there when she worked there (and she might even have testified that she bought one of the bottles herself).

And of course you know who Sollecito's previous cleaner was, don't you? Or don't you?

The lady in Quintavalle's shop.

 

[acbytesla]

Tell you what, I bet you $1000 that if we walk down any business street in downtown Seattle we won't find one door unlocked if the business is closed unless am employee is still there. People leave houses with unlocked doors but businesses rarely.

Of course your theory falls completely apart when you realize he would have just told the truth and said the door was unlocked.

He never got caught so why not come back and spend the night? Ridiculous. Why do you think Prato didn't come to the same brilliant insight?

Tesla if he was selling his own loot he would have been doing the exact same thing as selling someone else's stuff. The wiki doesn't fit the kind of loot involved as the stuff wouldn't sell in a legitimate market. You mock his abilities without anything to support it.

3 things and then I'm done.....Nah..the hell with it. I'm done now. We'll just have to disagree. I think your clueless about this subject and you feel the same about me. We are not going to persuade each other,

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[RoseMontague]

Agreed LJ, I was going to post the same thing but of course was ninja-ed.

And as we all know that would be the diagonal of a rectangular cuboid, say a large brick or concrete block. A rock would have curved edges significantly cutting down on the diagonal measurement...

Why am I even arguing about a rock/boulder/stone???? We all know it's throw-able as proven by Davefoc.

Math is not my strong suit, LOL. Common sense is. I've seen the picture of the nice policeman in the bunny suit picking up the rock with one hand. It's a rock or stone, not a boulder.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Aqualung

"Aqualung my friend
Don't start away uneasy
You poor old sod
You see it's only me." Jethro Tull

This verse was on my mind when I half-jokingly described Mr. Owen as a sod. So far I have provided two examples of Owen's errors. These alone lessen his credibility as a reporter.

 

[RoseMontague]

It looks like Owen (and Nadeau btw.) just re-reported what the "la repubblica" published on Nov 18, 2007: Meredith, svolta sul quarto uomo pronto un altro ordine di arresto:

It's interesting that Owen reports the "bleach receipts" in his article from Nov 19, 2007, because in a later article also dated Nov 18, 2007 titled: "Giallo Perugia, in casa di Sollecito nessuno scontrino del 2 novembre" the "la repubblica" reports:

So even if Owen didn't read the full article, how could he have missed the headline?

Thanks, Google translation

While hunting the fourth man continues in strict confidentiality, the yellow of Perugia lost one of the pieces that in the last hours had seemed decisive: in the minutes on the search in the house of Raffaele Sollecito there are no receipts dated November 2, the day after the murder of British student Meredith Kercher. Of those two receipts he had spoken of as one of the clues to the heaviest load of the young man is in jail along with Amanda Knox and Patrick Diya Lumumba, a proof of purchase in a supermarket in Perugia two bottles of bleach used to any trace of the murder.

 

[Dan O.]

.

I also appreciated Dan O's addition of the information about the examination of the drain filter. It was a point that both supported and contradicted what I had written a bit. The police were suspicious enough to investigate the washing machine, implying there was more to be suspicious of than I had implied, but they seemed to have found absolutely nothing which supports the main point, that there was absolutely nothing incriminating about the washing machine despite the fact that Owen reported early on that there was.

I know nothing about testing of the washing machine at the flat. Several days after the murder they had Filomena look at the clothes through the window. I think they figured out that these were Meridith's clothes from before the murder so there would be no expectation in finding evidence within. Even a false positive from that machine would mean nothing unless they could show that it was run after the murder. Any positive hit from Raf's machine for blood or Meredith's DNA would however be damning.