Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Chris_Halkides]

My thoughts on Richard Owen

If he claims Raf immediately washed his shoes in bleach when he got home then he is a two bit lying hack.

Rose Montague,

That is too harsh. How about pitiable, befuddled old sod?

 

[RoseMontague]

Rose Montague,

That is too harsh. How about pitiable, befuddled old sod?

Works for me.

 

[Vixen]

On the anterior quadrant of the floor, beneath the window, 0.93 m from the right wall, 0.66 m from the anterior wall, and 2.31 m from the posterior wall, is a medium-sized paper bag (..), containing items of clothing and a rock measuring 20 cm x 15 cm x 15 cm approximately; a second fragment of stone, of smaller dimensions, rests on the floor, outside of the bag, near the rock (..)."

...which would be less than 8 inches x 6 inches x 6 inches, or in other words, the smallest boulder in the world.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Micheli_Sentencing_Report_(English)

1. The definition of a boulder is a diagonal length of 30cm (12"). This fits a rock 8" x6" x 6".

2. [Quote Micheli] The left shutter window presents broken glass in the lower half and a hole of irregular form, measuring 53 cm in length and 27 cm in width. The inner and outer sill are strewn with fragments of glass of various dimensions, present also in the inside of the room. The inside surface of the left shutter, in correspondence to the hole made in the glass, presents an evident scratch in the wood of irregular form, about 2 cm, with fraying of the wood fibres and various small slivers of glass driven therein (..).

 

[Vixen]

Another mystifying comment serving only to boost your inflated post count. Grinder made the point that Tremontino's (sp?) evidence wasn't sufficiently firm to convict Guede of the break-in, but having said that it adds to all the other evidence that the break-in and murder was committed by him alone.

The "multiple assailants" claim is not proved or even likely. Tremontino's evidence is of immensely more merit than Curatolo's.

You reckon, do you, when it was not even reported.

 

[Vixen]

Here's more pics of Guede's apartment including one of **** mans toilet.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 10

Can someone highlight where all this IT Equipment is?

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, do you believe that the Nikes that Rudi was wearing in the cottage that night - the Nikes that matched the shoebox in his flat - the ones he said he threw away in a dumpster in Germany along with the clothes he wore at the cottage the night Mez died - do you believe that they were Rudi's own shoes?

I ask Vixen the above because I'm just trying to cover all the possibilities, given Vixen's propensity to deny the obvious and find the most extreme explanation to try to exonerate Rudi from being the sole perpetrator of the terrible crime that took the life of a wonderful young woman and led to so much suffering by her family. And also led to the 7-year-long misguided prosecution (persecution) and suffering of two other young people.

Last year a Dallas man was caught with meth in his pockets. His defense? He told the cops "these aren't my pants!" Perhaps the shoes Rudi wore that night weren't his shoes! . What say you, Vixen?

I'll go along with the police.

 

[Bill Williams]

According to Raf, "the person who committed the murder, must have stolen my shoes."

Poor poor Raf. First Stefanoni "planting" his DNA (interview BBCradio4). Then that barsted Professor Rinaldi matching his foot to the bathmat and the bloody police giving him grief about his knives!

Why, his attorney couldn't even supposedly offer mafioso Aviello €104K for bent testimony, without accusations of corruption.

Poor poor Raf.

What you are pointing out is the lack of disclosure by the prosecution to the defence, leaving the defence to guess why there are all these rumours floating around.

This is not something to keep throwing back on to the defence - this is actually a well-placed criticism about a prosecution who kept inventing evidence, then forcing the defence to account for it!!!!

Anything but disclose.

 

[Bill Williams]

The early bleach story:


19.11.2007 TIMES Richard Owen
Police said that further evidence against Mr Sollecito had come to light in the form of receipts from a shop near his flat for bleach, bought on the morning after the murder and allegedly used to clean an 8in kitchen knife and Mr Sollecito’s Nike trainers. The first receipt was timed at 8.30am on November 2, and the second 45 minutes later, suggesting that the first container of bleach had not been sufficient. The bleach was also used to clean up the flat itself.
Tests have shown Ms Kercher’s DNA on the tip of the knife and Ms Knox’s DNA close to the handle. Police suspect that Mr Sollecito and Ms Knox attempted to clean the knife, failing to realise that they would still leave identifiable DNA traces.
The till receipts call into question Mr Sollecito’s account of events on November 2, since he had testified that he did not get up until 10am, when he was woken by Ms Knox.
He told police that Ms Knox had returned to his flat at 1am but in the morning decided to return to her own cottage to have a shower, taking him with her. They found blood in the bathroom and a smashed window, with Ms Kercher’s door locked. Police believe, however, that Ms Knox and Mr Sollecito smashed the window themselves to simulate a break-in.

Vixen

This very report is where I came into this case. There is no truth in it. The receipts were a fiction, never produced at trial. Your idea that this is because the prosecution doesn't use all the evidence of guilt is laughable and wrong. If they could have backed up Quintavalle's story with those receipts, they would have. It follows as a matter of iron logic that there were no receipts.

"Michael" is the mononym of the webmaster of the PMF.NET webservice, one of the hate sites which passed on for years these sorts of factoids. "Michael" was once the co-owner of the unifed PMF brand until March 2011 when Psggy Ganong and he had a falling out, and each tried to steal the PMF brand from each other, resulting in .NET and .ORG (now closed to outsiders).

"Michael" was once challenged on this issue of "the receipts": he claimed to have a JPEG of them. IIRC he once posted one of the receipts, and did not notice that it was clearly marked on it, that it was for pizza, and not dated for Nov 2.

Innocenters made sport of Michael's gaffe, and perhaps it is time to renew the effort, if Vixen is going to be bringing that lie around again. "Michael" promised to rectify the mistake, and here we are 3 years later still waiting. If anything, that one episode demonstrates the guilters' commitment to factoid evidence.

There are no receipts. There never were. Reporters who reported on this were duped by cops, who DID put lies out into the public domain.

The difference is that there are still some duped by those lies.

 

[RoseMontague]

1. The definition of a boulder is a diagonal length of 30cm (12"). This fits a rock 8" x6" x 6".

2. [Quote Micheli] The left shutter window presents broken glass in the lower half and a hole of irregular form, measuring 53 cm in length and 27 cm in width. The inner and outer sill are strewn with fragments of glass of various dimensions, present also in the inside of the room. The inside surface of the left shutter, in correspondence to the hole made in the glass, presents an evident scratch in the wood of irregular form, about 2 cm, with fraying of the wood fibres and various small slivers of glass driven therein (..).

That would be a diagonal length of about 10.5 inches

In geology, a boulder is a rock with grain size of usually no less than 30 centimetres (1 ft) diameter.[1][2] While a boulder may be small enough to move or roll manually, others are extremely massive.[3] In common usage, a boulder is too large for a person to move. Smaller boulders are usually just called rocks or stones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulder

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for that.

I notice I used the term, true facts. So are there false facts? I would like to have edited that, but this thread moves on pretty quickly and I'll leave it. Perhaps in time I will get over my embarrassment at the use of the term.

I also appreciated Dan O's addition of the information about the examination of the drain filter. It was a point that both supported and contradicted what I had written a bit. The police were suspicious enough to investigate the washing machine, implying there was more to be suspicious of than I had implied, but they seemed to have found absolutely nothing which supports the main point, that there was absolutely nothing incriminating about the washing machine despite the fact that Owen reported early on that there was.

This provides, at least some evidence, that Owen was not a supernatural reporter incapable of error or reporting information told to him by others that later turned out to be false.

As a story develops, new facts come to light. What stories do you prefer, "Foxy Knoxy" plagiarised conjecture, or serious reporting, such as Owen, who actually got off his. backside and researched it himself. He is not a court. He just reported what people, including the police, said to him at the time.

IMV this is far preferable to the - alternative - press release style hype seeking to either titillate the public, exploit their basest instincts ("hang'em! flog'em") or blatantly lie for political ends.


How do you like your news delivered, Dave? Fox News?

 

[Vixen]

This is excellent evidence of the misinformation reported in the early days of the reporting on this case. Of course, all the information about the receipts has been shown to be false, so I presume you put this forth to provide evidence that you agree that Owen's reporting was not infallible, even if you have great respect for his journalistic skills.

Please refer me to the source that shows this.

 

[Desert Fox]

Not worried too much about what to call the object in question.
Rock, stone, boulder, but in any cases it was an object that a person could throw.

 

[Vixen]

That's pretty sad reporting. Did he even try to get a response from the defense teams. Did he verify this information through non-police sources? Does he realize that he looks like an idiot today, nothing more than a police mouthpiece, mindlessly parroting whatever the cops wanted him to say? I understand he retired in 2010, about the time the TIMES went behind a pay wall and became pretty much useless. That's a good thing.

Owen's articles are fairly balanced, with both the police view and the defense view.

It's interesting Raf was incriminating himself all over the place until Maori stepped in.

 

[Katody Matrass]

As a story develops, new facts come to light. What stories do you prefer, "Foxy Knoxy" plagiarised conjecture, or serious reporting, such as Owen, who actually got off his. backside and researched it himself. He is not a court. He just reported what people, including the police, said to him at the time.

IMV this is far preferable to the - alternative - press release style hype seeking to either titillate the public, exploit their basest instincts ("hang'em! flog'em") or blatantly lie for political ends.


How do you like your news delivered, Dave? Fox News?

Owen's reporting is still useful, even when he repeats lies. We can assume he is not fabricating all the lies by himself, he is fed the lies that maybe he just embellishes a bit to make it more sellable.
Owen's and other yellow journos' reporting such as it is documents the PR campaign of disinformation that the Perugian authorities were waging from early on in the case. It is in fact very telling. It seems that the authorities were well aware of the evidentiary weakness of their case and felt the need to prop it up with character assassination and lies.

 

[Grinder]

You crack me up Grinder. Very few people deliberately leave their valuables or homes/businesses unsecured. But many people are sloppy, lazy and just make mistakes. It happens all the time in Seattle. Talk to a cop and then get back to me.

Tell you what, I bet you $1000 that if we walk down any business street in downtown Seattle we won't find one door unlocked if the business is closed unless am employee is still there. People leave houses with unlocked doors but businesses rarely.

Of course your theory falls completely apart when you realize he would have just told the truth and said the door was unlocked.

In comparison it is far far more likely than the anonymous guy selling him lodging. Please tell me that you're not this gullible.
Oh, you're assuming he's smart enough to know better. LOL. Consider the following. He NEVER got caught the first time. Does he have any reason to think they might be able to pin that on him? I don't think that he would have been the slightest bit worried about that.

He never got caught so why not come back and spend the night? Ridiculous. Why do you think Prato didn't come to the same brilliant insight?

That ain't a fence.

Wikipedia: A fence is an individual who knowingly buys stolen property for later resale, sometimes in a legitimate market. The fence thus acts as a middleman between thieves and the eventual buyers of stolen goods who may not be aware that the goods are stolen.

Tesla if he was selling his own loot he would have been doing the exact same thing as selling someone else's stuff. The wiki doesn't fit the kind of loot involved as the stuff wouldn't sell in a legitimate market. You mock his abilities without anything to support it.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Please refer me to the source that shows this.

I can help. It's the case file. You can start by reading the bits that are translated, it will suffice.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen

This very report is where I came into this case. There is no truth in it. The receipts were a fiction, never produced at trial. Your idea that this is because the prosecution doesn't use all the evidence of guilt is laughable and wrong. If they could have backed up Quintavalle's story with those receipts, they would have. It follows as a matter of iron logic that there were no receipts.

So what are those two huge bottles of ACE bleach under Raf's sink, as starring in the police video RVBW(?) put up.

His housekeeper testified she did not buy it.

 

[Wattson]

As a story develops, new facts come to light. What stories do you prefer, "Foxy Knoxy" plagiarised conjecture, or serious reporting, such as Owen, who actually got off his. backside and researched it himself. He is not a court. He just reported what people, including the police, said to him at the time.

IMV this is far preferable to the - alternative - press release style hype seeking to either titillate the public, exploit their basest instincts ("hang'em! flog'em") or blatantly lie for political ends.


How do you like your news delivered, Dave? Fox News?

Um, I believe there was a trial or 2. Don't you think that would trump ALL rumours and conjecture?

 

[LondonJohn]

That would be a diagonal length of about 10.5 inches



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulder

Well actually, the longest diagonal across a solid shape of diameter 8x6x6 is sq rt (8² + 6² +6²) = sq rt 136 = 11.7

But we're getting into rather deep semantics now about this rock. One thing's clear though: it certainly could not reasonably be described as a boulder under the generally-accepted definition of that term.

 

[LondonJohn]

So what are those two huge bottles of ACE bleach under Raf's sink, as starring in the police video RVBW(?) put up.

His housekeeper testified she did not buy it.

They'd been there for months. IIRC, Sollecito's previous cleaner testified that they'd been there when she worked there (and she might even have testified that she bought one of the bottles herself).

And of course you know who Sollecito's previous cleaner was, don't you? Or don't you?