Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

Is there a confirming witness statement or contemporaneous documentation that shows Battistelli said or thought that in the first investigation? Much of this so called evidence could be back filled by Mignini questioning the investigators after the pair had been arrested.

The window of opportunity was very short; meaning that there were perhaps 15 minutes for anyone other than AK and RS to observe the pre-Meredith discovery condition of the cottage in situ.

For any subsequent description of the scene would have required an objective source like a video taping, It's impossible now to imagine any description of the unsullied condition of the cottage without suspecting that the testimony is hopelessly influenced by subsequent theorizing.

The key thing that Battistelli was necessarily missing with his alleged quip, "This is no burglary," is that at that time, in real time, he had no reason to suspect that what he was seeing was an interrupted burglary.

His observation only becomes skewed from that on Mignini's subsequent insistence that the killing was an inside job. Mignini held to that for many more reasons than the condition of Filomena's room. One was his determination that AK was a quintessential liar and actress. Although apparently not enough of one to prevent Mignini from arresting PL solely on AK's say-so, as per those who support Mignini and swear he had not suspected any of them prior to Amanda's interrogation.

This is a complex attempt at back-fill, not just in relation to Battistelli's alleged temarks. It also is an attempt to back-fill (cover up) that they'd even suspected AK/RS/PL prior to the early hours of Nov. 6.

The key to this is the question: what did Mignini know and when did he know it? Not Battistelli's observation but the way the whole thing was assembled by Mignini.

 

[Vixen]

No evidence of drug use, no evidence of connection to Rudi beyond 2 or three times total, no explanation for the knife being there, no need for money as she had ATM access, problem with Curatolo seeing them at the murder time and Nara hearing the scream and running later but other than that it fits perfectly with the evidence.

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

 

[Vixen]

Who?

I tried to write on the wall because she wanted to say something, but there wasn’t time to look for a pen and a sheet of paper.​

Police claim they could not find these letters - AF - Rudy claimed to have written.

 

[Numbers]

I'd say just after 5-8. When Kercher's vagina samples came back without Lumumba's DNA, proper investigators would have re-reviewed everything they thought they knew including the break in theory. I give credit to PLE for being genuine in their beliefs up to that point. Genuine but very misguided. But when the vagina DNA was then later still confirmed to belong to Guede, whose presence at the crime scene had now been confirmed, then their misguidedness becomes something more sinister again. Someone should have stopped the roller coaster - probably Ricciarelli, around the end of November at the latest.

{Highlighting added to quote.}

Of course, being genuine but misguided is not so different in its effects than being insincere, incompetent, and corrupt. The effect of interest being the incarceration of two innocent persons for approximately four years.

Giobbi in his testimony states that one of the beginning points of the investigation was examination of the alibis of those close to Meredith. Amanda had a weak alibi, supported only by Raffaele, for the relevant time (which the prosecution choose to extend past the evidence from Meredith's cell phone). She had a key for the apartment. Thus, the break-in -- possibly considered to be part of a staged insurance fraud by postal police, who thus ignored the possibility it was part of a home invasion -- was staged, since Amanda did not need to break-in. That is, the police and prosecution engaged, IMO, in circular reasoning.

 

[anglolawyer]

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

And yet found no drug traces in her hair nor, despite extensive enquiry, any evidence of drug use going beyond weed or impairing her ability to study, socialise, get on with life, work at Le Chic etc. etc. etc. Boy, she sure masked the withdrawal symptoms well at Capanne, didn't she? Just what do you think she was on? Coke, smack, acid, heroine?

 

[acbytesla]

As you no doubt are aware there are two police squads in Italy, postal police and the carabinieri, a quasi-military style Flying Squad.

Do you have an explanation for Amanda's claim in her email home she was so alarmed on coming home circa 10:30 to find the door swinging open, etc, that she was frantically banging on Mez' door, but later, she assured the postal police it was quite normal for Mez' door to be closed?

I feel deja vu coming on, don't tell me, the police misunderstood her Italian.

You know, this is not mutually exclusive. They were looking for Metedith. (the reason for banging on the door) And sometimes Mez locked her door. They are not actually linked as you are so desperately trying to do.

 

[Numbers]

The window of opportunity was very short; meaning that there were perhaps 15 minutes for anyone other than AK and RS to observe the pre-Meredith discovery condition of the cottage in situ.

For any subsequent description of the scene would have required an objective source like a video taping, It's impossible now to imagine any description of the unsullied condition of the cottage without suspecting that the testimony is hopelessly influenced by subsequent theorizing.

The key thing that Battistelli was necessarily missing with his alleged quip, "This is no burglary," is that at that time, in real time, he had no reason to suspect that what he was seeing was an interrupted burglary.

His observation only becomes skewed from that on Mignini's subsequent insistence that the killing was an inside job. Mignini held to that for many more reasons than the condition of Filomena's room. One was his determination that AK was a quintessential liar and actress. Although apparently not enough of one to prevent Mignini from arresting PL solely on AK's say-so, as per those who support Mignini and swear he had not suspected any of them prior to Amanda's interrogation.

This is a complex attempt at back-fill, not just in relation to Battistelli's alleged temarks. It also is an attempt to back-fill (cover up) that they'd even suspected AK/RS/PL prior to the early hours of Nov. 6.

The key to this is the question: what did Mignini know and when did he know it? Not Battistelli's observation but the way the whole thing was assembled by Mignini.

Yes to all of the above. IMO Bill has captured the issues here.

 

[js202]

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

Those bank records were recently posted here for you, and, in light of what they actually reveal, what you say is - surprise - speculative nonsense.

However, to indulge your line of "thought" for a moment, let's further speculate that Ms. Knox accompanied her voluminous drug intake with some magic serum that later foiled ILE blood and urine tests. Assuming there was a long background to this behavior, how do you suppose she managed to stay on the dean's list at a competitive school like the University of Washington? Where are the sources from Ms. Knox's peers to corroborate such an intake of drugs? Meanwhile, her grades - and subsequent graduation and fledgling career as a junior reporter - are unambiguous.

 

[Grinder]

I'm sorry, while I do believe that Amanda and Raffaele were legitimately considered suspects, I can't fathom why ANYONE actually believes that there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. WHY? Seriously WHY? I see Vixen and other guilters constantly cherry picking and instead of logically following the evidence, they interpret events through a fog of confirmation bias.

Tesla are you saying there wasn't enough for them to suspects in the conventional use of the word or not enough to convict them.

I don't understand their ignoring the short time that Amanda knew Raffaele, that Amanda barely knew Rudy, and there is really know reason that Amanda or Raffaele would want to kill Meredith. And there is no reason that Rudy would join in with people he barely knew in killing Meredith.

While true, if the knife had blood on it and the footprints matched the kids, I think you've said you'd convict.

 

[acbytesla]

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

Nonsense. Wild speculation not even considered worthy enough to bring up during the trial.
No positive drug tests, no one testifying that Knox was a heavy drug user. Nothing really to lead to this idea. But hey, why not run it up the flagpole?

 

[Grinder]

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

She had 4000 dollars or more. She was withdrawing 250 Euro and once 500.

Please provide the proof on the calls both that they were made and that he was her drug dealer.

I thought she was buying from Rudi according to your theory.

What drugs was she buying and did she test positive?

Anyone feel free as the V won't answer in an acceptable fashion.

 

[Bill Williams]

As you no doubt are aware there are two police squads in Italy, postal police and the carabinieri, a quasi-military style Flying Squad.

Do you have an explanation for Amanda's claim in her email home she was so alarmed on coming home circa 10:30 to find the door swinging open, etc, that she was frantically banging on Mez' door, but later, she assured the postal police it was quite normal for Mez' door to be closed?

I feel deja vu coming on, don't tell me, the police misunderstood her Italian.

AK doesn't need an explanation unless you are conducting a suspect-centric investigation. When you investigate this properly you find that Amanda's email home is no different than any one else's theorizing based on having only a hazy command of the facts.

AK was not the only one whose memory of the facts pre-discovery was hopelessly compromised by the horrid discovery.

My belief is that the March 2015 ISC exonerated AK and RS because the only way to convict them is to assume they are guilty to begin with. Strangely, Judge Massei has a discussion of the perils of suspect-centric investigations in his motivations report and then proceeds to ignore his own wisdom!

 

[Vixen]

Show your timeline.

She claims to have got up 10:00 ish, went to the cottage, had shower, hairwash, hairdry, put on "new clothes", claimed to be going to Gubbio, strolled back, told Raf after breakfast her "concerns". Rang Mez. Rang Filomena, circa 12:07, claimed to be at cottage, but actually phone records showed she was at Raf's. Filomena urged Amanda to ring Mez. Amanda omitted to inform Filomena she already had. Rang Filomena again 12:34- ish. Filomena urged her to call the police. Postal police turned up they say 12:35, but let's give slack, and say 12:45. Raf calls his sister circa 12:47. She says, call the police. Amanda rings Mum, Edda, 12:57. Raf rings police at last between 12:47- 12:58. Door kicked down by Filomena's sister's boyfriend, Luca as soon as they arrive, 13:05. Carabinieri turn up circa 13:26, "within half an hour", as promised. Postal police report washing machine just finishing cycle and the pair had a mop, on their arrival.

NB: this is from memory, so do check times for yourself.

 

[Grinder]

Of course, being genuine but misguided is not so different in its effects than being insincere, incompetent, and corrupt. The effect of interest being the incarceration of two innocent persons for approximately four years.

It makes a huge difference when discussing framing etc. which I thought we were.

Please don't use IMO as it offends Anglo.

 

[Bill Williams]

She had 4000 dollars or more. She was withdrawing 250 Euro and once 500.

Please provide the proof on the calls both that they were made and that he was her drug dealer.

I thought she was buying from Rudi according to your theory.

What drugs was she buying and did she test positive?

Anyone feel free as the V won't answer in an acceptable fashion.

Even Machiavelli admitted that AK failed all the tests for drugs, even as he then had to retreat into claiming these tests were not exhaustive. His contortions around this issue were a wonder to behold, given his core theory tha RG and AK had an active drug and sex relationship - albeit with no evidence to support the claim.

Vixen is reading from Machiavelli's song sheet and probably doesn't understand his "nuanced" thought.

 

[Strozzi]

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

Vixen, you are a clever wordsmith able to disseminate false hostile claims to damage innocent people.

 

[Kauffer]

The bank statements show her funds were running low and she was withdrawing large sums, giving rise to speculation of a drugs problem. Police confirmed she rang her dealer before and after the murder.

What nonsense. She had thousands of dollars in her account, sources of additional monies if needed and a job. Her expenditure is entirely normal.

Go ahead and produce the police "confirmation" of the drug dealer calls. Produce the evidence that she had a dealer.

All this evidence, financial and telecoms, is available for you to cite. Just once, make an effort to examine it in detail and make an argument from it. Use the evidence, rather than post an unsupported offhand conclusion.

 

[Bill Williams]

She claims to have got up 10:00 ish, went to the cottage, had shower, hairwash, hairdry, put on "new clothes", claimed to be going to Gubbio, strolled back, told Raf after breakfast her "concerns". Rang Mez. Rang Filomena, circa 12:07, claimed to be at cottage, but actually phone records showed she was at Raf's. Filomena urged Amanda to ring Mez. Amanda omitted to inform Filomena she already had. Rang Filomena again 12:34- ish. Filomena urged her to call the police. Postal police turned up they say 12:35, but let's give slack, and say 12:45. Raf calls his sister circa 12:47. She says, call the police. Amanda rings Mum, Edda, 12:57. Raf rings police at last between 12:47- 12:58. Door kicked down by Filomena's sister's boyfriend, Luca as soon as they arrive, 13:05. Carabinieri turn up circa 13:26, "within half an hour", as promised. Postal police report washing machine just finishing cycle and the pair had a mop, on their arrival.

NB: this is from memory, so do check times for yourself.

Your memory is fawlty. Even Judge Massei has the postals arriving just minutes before 1 pm.

No wonder you rarely put things to a timeline.

 

[js202]

She claims to have got up 10:00 ish, went to the cottage, had shower, hairwash, hairdry, put on "new clothes", claimed to be going to Gubbio, strolled back, told Raf after breakfast her "concerns". Rang Mez. Rang Filomena, circa 12:07, claimed to be at cottage, but actually phone records showed she was at Raf's. Filomena urged Amanda to ring Mez. Amanda omitted to inform Filomena she already had. Rang Filomena again 12:34- ish. Filomena urged her to call the police. Postal police turned up they say 12:35, but let's give slack, and say 12:45. Raf calls his sister circa 12:47. She says, call the police. Amanda rings Mum, Edda, 12:57. Raf rings police at last between 12:47- 12:58. Door kicked down by Filomena's sister's boyfriend, Luca as soon as they arrive, 13:05. Carabinieri turn up circa 13:26, "within half an hour", as promised. Postal police report washing machine just finishing cycle and the pair had a mop, on their arrival.

NB: this is from memory, so do check times for yourself.

Given that, at least according to your initial account here, over the course of just a couple weeks on this site you've gotten off the fence of equanimous neutrality and placed yourself so securely on the side of guilt, such recent revelations should be quite firmly implanted in your memory, no?

 

[Grinder]

Briefly, are you suggesting mignini and giuttari would have been investigated, indicted, and convicted at 1st trial anyway, had it not been for the debacle of Spezi' arrest and three week imprisonment, and the international ridicule that absurd arrest brought down on the Italian judiciary?

Was the Spezi arrest a significant part of the trial? It was about Mignini tapping other ILE people and journalists.