Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Dougm]

Dougm, I don't think the important newcomer is new to the case. Clearly not. She is someone who has probably been commenting online and creating and disseminating rumor and innuendo for years, but on a different board. Now that that board is no longer operating, she is homeless. The homeless serial witness has found a new park bench. This is it. Please slide down a little to make a little more room, OK?

You might be right. What I find odd about this case, is that in most debates, when things are proven wrong, people are forced to agree to that fact, but move on and press others if they still agree with their general position. In this case, we are still explaining things like a women's shoe print NOT being found in the murder room, and how it was proven, in court, that AK and RS DID call the Carabinieri BEFORE the Postal Police arrived. Shooting down bizarre statements like, "Conti and Vecchiotti were hired and paid by the defense".

If these folks have been following the case for years, they sure haven't been paying attention.

 

[RWVBWL]

Days Earlier?

Greetings,
If any of you have had the time to read the links from Old Perugia Shock about The Knife, that I recently posted links to,
you too might wonder why Dr. Stefanoni did not force the machine to take some alleles out at all costs,
like she did with The Knife.

What am I talkin' about?:

Friday, July 3, 2009
A Carabiniere to save Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox
MARSHALL, MY MARSHALL
The mystery of the broken window

<snip>
In addiction to this the consultant remembered that a stain of presumed blood substance with a hair formation was found on the window, trying to suggest that the intruder injured himself against the latch. The chemical analysis didn't sort anything. For some reason Dr Patrizia/Mrs Stefanoni didn't outdo herself this time. Apparently the beautiful biologist this time didn't force the machine to take some alleles out at all costs. Just by coincidence, it was black hair.


Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20091201...7/carabiniere-to-save-raffaele-sollecito.html

* * *

Hmmmm,
black hair found in blood on Filomena's windowsill,
and Dr. Stefanoni won't turn up the dials,
so to say, to ID it or the blood?

Was it negroid hair,
as I seem to recall reading?
Was this why the cops were soooo interested in a black man.
1 named Patrick Lumumba, Amanda's boss?

And so they arrested him in the early morning hours,
(after interrogating Amanda overnight, before, as they cops knew, her Mother was due to arrive),
and interrogated him without a lawyer present,
hit him and threatened him with 30 years imprisonment.


Why does this passage that I'll quote from B. Nadeau's book,
that we discussed here years ago back in 2010,
just 6 months after Raff+ AK were convicted,
bother me still?

Because Raffaele was confusing the nights of Oct. 31 + Nov 1st?

Or that he notes that Amanda told the cops,
days earlier before The Interrogation,
of Lumumba's text message sayin' not to come to work the night Miss Kercher was murdered?


"I went home on my own. Amanda said she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to see some friends. That's when we said goodbye. I went home, smoked a joint and had dinner, but I can't remember what I ate."
He also couldn't remember Amanda being around, although she had told police, days earlier, that when Patrick Lumumba sent her a text message telling her not to come to work, she went straight over to Raffaele's and spent the entire evening there.

* * *

I always found it odd how the cops just substituted 1 black man for another,
while keeping the story basically the same,
it's kind of like they were looking for a black man,
all along,
right?

 

[Strozzi]

Greetings,
If any of you have had the time to read the links from Old Perugia Shock about The Knife, that I recently posted links to,
you too might wonder why Dr. Stefanoni did not force the machine to take some alleles out at all costs,
like she did with The Knife.

What am I talkin' about?:

Friday, July 3, 2009
A Carabiniere to save Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox
MARSHALL, MY MARSHALL
The mystery of the broken window

<snip>
In addiction to this the consultant remembered that a stain of presumed blood substance with a hair formation was found on the window, trying to suggest that the intruder injured himself against the latch. The chemical analysis didn't sort anything. For some reason Dr Patrizia/Mrs Stefanoni didn't outdo herself this time. Apparently the beautiful biologist this time didn't force the machine to take some alleles out at all costs. Just by coincidence, it was black hair.


Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20091201...7/carabiniere-to-save-raffaele-sollecito.html

* * *

Hmmmm,
black hair found in blood on Filomena's windowsill,
and Dr. Stefanoni won't turn up the dials,
so to say, to ID it or the blood?

Was it negroid hair, as I have read?

Was this why the cops were soooo interested in a black man.
Like Patrick Lumumba, Amanda's boss,
and so they arrested him in the early morning hours,
(after interrogating Amanda overnight, before, as they cops knew, her Mother was due to arrive),
and interrogated him without a lawyer present,
hit him and threatened him with 30 years imprisonment.


Why does this passage that I'll quote from B. Nadeau's book,
that we discussed here years ago back in 2010,
just 6 months after Raff+ AK were convicted,
bother me still?

Because Raffaele was confusing the nights of Oct. 31 + Nov 1st?

Or that he notes that Amanda told the cops,
days earlier before The Interrogation,
of Lumumba's text message sayin' not to come to work the night Miss Kercher was murdered?


"I went home on my own. Amanda said she was going to Le Chic because she wanted to see some friends. That's when we said goodbye. I went home, smoked a joint and had dinner, but I can't remember what I ate."
He also couldn't remember Amanda being around, although she had told police, days earlier, that when Patrick Lumumba sent her a text message telling her not to come to work, she went straight over to Raffaele's and spent the entire evening there.

* * *

I always found it odd how the cops just substituted 1 black man for another,
while keeping the story basically the same,
it's kind of like they were looking for a black man,
all along,
right?

In addition, the police also had an eyewitness (a couple, actually) who were passed by a black man running up the outside stairs at the square across the road after the murder. After Rudi was arrested the woman stated he is not the black man who almost collided with her, but earlier in the investigation as the police were looking for suspects they had her description of a black man running up the stairs whilest she and her boyfriend were descending.

 

[acbytesla]

You might be right. What I find odd about this case, is that in most debates, when things are proven wrong, people are forced to agree to that fact, but move on and press others if they still agree with their general position. In this case, we are still explaining things like a women's shoe print NOT being found in the murder room, and how it was proven, in court, that AK and RS DID call the Carabinieri BEFORE the Postal Police arrived. Shooting down bizarre statements like, "Conti and Vecchiotti were hired and paid by the defense".

If these folks have been following the case for years, they sure haven't been paying attention.

I've had it with the discussion with Vixen. The arguments she presents are dishonest through and through. According to the rules we are not supposed to make personal attacks or direct our arguments at a member. That makes this very difficult.

One the one hand, I welcome anyone with a different perspective on the case as that not only livens up the discussion it may help me to take a different view and learn something. But how do we learn anything when the discussion is about newspaper articles that the actual court transcripts prove to be false?

Time and time again Vixen through her posts brings up points that not even the prosecution would say is true and can't be found anywhere in the court records. IE: the bleach receipts, cctv footage, times of events etc
She never acknowledges the corrections, she just moves on to post another falsehood. She says she is neutral, but if that was true, she would acknowledge the corrections and THINK about how what she thought was true is actually false.

She approaches this as a debate as opposed to an honest search for the truth.

I ask...what is there to learn from the discussion? Seems like very little. Unfortunately.

 

[RWVBWL]

I concur,
ACbyTesla!

I'm still waiting for Vixen to come back and provide me with a real, true link to support this:

He did not trouble himself to discover Raf was at his IIRC brother-in-law's graduation party, on 31.10.2007. Doh_!

Which this well read Mensa Chick can't do.
Raff was at home on Halloween night.
Prove me wrong, girl...

RotFL!

 

[Grinder]

I concur,
ACbyTesla!

I'm still waiting for Vixen to come back and provide me with a real, true link to support this:


Which this well read Mensa Chick can't do.
Raff was at home on Halloween night.
RotFL!

He did have some sort of similar event during this period. Do you remember what it was? I think some sort of graduation related dinner.

Since it has little importance I didn't focus on it but didn't they go to a party or meetup on Halloween>

 

[Grinder]

I ask...what is their to learn from the discussion? Seems like very little. Unfortunately.

How to spell "there"

I believe we are experiencing a regular and it is interesting to watch. A little like a wasp in September when they know they are dying.

This stuff is so over the top it does seem to be a parody of a PGP.

I must say it is entertaining to watch the reach needed to make the case.

 

[acbytesla]

I concur,
ACbyTesla!

I'm still waiting for Vixen to come back and provide me with a real, true link to support this:



Which this well read Mensa Chick can't do.
Raff was at home on Halloween night.
Prove me wrong, girl...

RotFL!

My guess is at best, she will find some rag that printed info from an unnamed source.

 

[acbytesla]

How to spell "there"

I believe we are experiencing a regular and it is interesting to watch. A little like a wasp in September when they know they are dying.

This stuff is so over the top it does seem to be a parody of a PGP.

I must say it is entertaining to watch the reach needed to make the case.

Thanks Grinder. I hate it when I make those kind of mistakes. But what really bothers me is when the tablet corrects me and actually turns something right into something wrong.

 

[Bill Williams]

Would I mislead you?

Ha! You're lucky i didn’t ask for a source just for the heck of it!

 

[anglolawyer]

If Vixen is indeed a refugee from dot org (jury's out on that IMO, but if) then she is living proof of the effect of prolonged confinement within a bunker of like-minded .. er, wrong-headed people. She thinks yellowing newspaper clippings are evidence, dismisses things she hasn't read or understood and carries on blithely as if completely unaware of the impression she makes.

 

[lonepinealex]

How to spell "there"

I believe we are experiencing a regular and it is interesting to watch. A little like a wasp in September when they know they are dying.

This stuff is so over the top it does seem to be a parody of a PGP.

I must say it is entertaining to watch the reach needed to make the case.

I still wouldn't be surprised to find Vixen is a Poe.

 

[Grinder]

My guess is at best, she will find some rag that printed info from an unnamed source.

"Meredith was always smiling and happy. She was really popular and it's horrible that someone would want to hurt her."
With remarkable composure he told how he and Amanda went to a party with friends, returning to his home last Thursday evening.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-poses-meat-cleaver-bleach.html#ixzz3ZZYppfx6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

There you have it

ETA - that was where he mixed up Weds and Thurs IIRC

 

[carbonjam72]

In addition, the police also had an eyewitness (a couple, actually) who were passed by a black man running up the outside stairs at the square across the road after the murder. After Rudi was arrested the woman stated he is not the black man who almost collided with her, but earlier in the investigation as the police were looking for suspects they had her description of a black man running up the stairs whilest she and her boyfriend were descending.

Is there any more on this? Any more testimony, I'm guessing yes.

So if that wasn't Rudy, then who was it?

Lot of ruckus going on in Perugia at night.

 

[carbonjam72]

I still wouldn't be surprised to find Vixen is a Poe. He or she is definitely a troll either way.

POE? What does this mean?

 

[Antony]

I've had it with the discussion with Vixen. The arguments she presents are dishonest through and through. According to the rules we are not supposed to make personal attacks or direct our arguments at a member. That makes this very difficult.

One the one hand, I welcome anyone with a different perspective on the case as that not only livens up the discussion it may help me to take a different view and learn something. But how do we learn anything when the discussion is about newspaper articles that the actual court transcripts prove to be false?

Time and time again Vixen through her posts brings up points that not even the prosecution would say is true and can't be found anywhere in the court records. IE: the bleach receipts, cctv footage, times of events etc
She never acknowledges the corrections, she just moves on to post another falsehood. She says she is neutral, but if that was true, she would acknowledge the corrections and THINK about how what she thought was true is actually false.

She approaches this as a debate as opposed to an honest search for the truth.

I ask...what is there to learn from the discussion? Seems like very little. Unfortunately.

Maybe about the psychology of guilt fixation - not just in this case, but generally. It's a recurring phenomenon that whenever a high-profile crime is committed and the finger is pointed at someone, then the pitchforks come out - long before the trial (if there is one), long after the conviction has been discredited, and long after the courts have been dragged kicking and screaming back to reality.

 

[Antony]

I concur,
ACbyTesla!

I'm still waiting for Vixen to come back and provide me with a real, true link to support this:



Which this well read Mensa Chick can't do.
Raff was at home on Halloween night.
Prove me wrong, girl...

RotFL!

I think you missed the point of this exchange. It seems that Raff (and Amanda) were verifiably not in the piazza on the evening of 31 October. Vixen (and the Chieffi court in annulling Hellmann) take this as proof that Curatolo actually saw the 2 of them on the evening of 1 November eek, and that it was legitimate grounds for declaring the Hellmann verdict "manifestly illogical".

Of course, it was a clear instance of the Chieffi court illegally intruding into interpretation of evidence (and showing blatant lack of impartiality). Is it too much to imagine that the coming motivations will refer to this?

 

[Matthew Best]

POE? What does this mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

"it is often impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of such extremism"

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings,
Since Vixen has not yet come back,
with a linked quote for me of Raff hangin'+partyin' with his brother-in-law(?) on Halloween night,
well I'd like to bring up something that bothers me still.

Here is the bedroom door of Meredith's after being broken into:

This was the only door,
of the 4 young women living upstairs,
that was found locked on the afternoon of Nov. 2, 2007.

It had to be broken in to.

Below,
this is Meredith's boyfriend Giacomo's door:

It too was the only locked bedroom door video'd of the 4 young men living downstairs.

It also was broken in to.
(By whom?)

This photo shows his bed,
with clothes on it, strewn about:

IIRC, some sandals, possibly wet, were found nearby on the floor there,
as were also 2 different bloody lines found nearby too on his bedroom floor.

Here's 1 of these lines,
a screen grab from the Crime Scene videos,
+ I drew an outline, in red, near it to highlight it:

In response to a post, Diocletus previously wrote back,
IIRC, that he thinks the lines are from watery, bloody clothing that Rudy
probably took off downstairs after the murder before changing into fresh clean clothes
and leaving the student's flat.

I was recently thinking about those lines on the floor.
IF from watered down blood,
shouldn't there be watered down blood pool swirls,
dried + puddled, found near these lines?


For some reason,
I still wonder if "poor Rudy" was in,
(as N. Burleigh writes of him having) 1 of his fugue states of mind,
if + when he went downstairs after he murdered + raped Meredith.
Maybe he drew the lines on the floor, in Meredith's blood, for some tripped-out reason?


It is really odd that only Meredith,
and her new boyfriend, Giacomo,
each had only their room bedroom doors locked.

No one else.
Not Filomena, Laura or Amanda.
Nor Stefano, or Ricardo + Marco.

Weird too,
is that when looking for info on any of the housemates interrogations,
I found that Giacomo was only interviewed once on Nov. 2,007.

But Marco and Ricardo,
2 of the other downstairs flatmates,
were interviewed twice, on Nov. 2nd + 3rd.

But their bro Stefano,
the dude whose room has blood on it's bed
and also what looks like a bloodied knife handle imprint on his bed,
is interviewed for deposition on Nov. 2, 3, + 4 of 2007.
The cops were quizzing Stefano...

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/

It's too bad the depositions are in Italian, still.

I really, really want to read if the cops were asking of Stefano:
"Did you leave for Holiday with your bed un-made + with cats blood drops on it and your comforter?"

Did Giacomo lawyer up immediately?

I'd luv to ask Giacomo this:
"Did you leave for Holiday with clothes strewn upon your bed,
and also lock your bedroom door before you gave your girl Meredith you keys + split town?"

And I'd like to know if any of the boyz downstairs saw Rudy Guede before bailing town
and made mention that they would be out of town for the long Holiday weekend:
RG-"Hey bro, what are you doin' this weekend?"
SB or GS-"Oh, I just gotta visit the relatives in the Marche. You?"
RG-"Oh, just gonna hang here around town"...

 

[Vixen]

No. Not when the guy comes forward 6 months later. Frankly I would be highly skeptical of any eyewitnesses, since they are notoriously unreliable even under the best of circumstsnces. But for one to come forward 6 months later to describe a non event and with such detail is absurd.

It would be one thing for an eyewitness to identify someone they had met or known previous to the incident. But, there is no real reason for homeless junkiebto have remembered either Amanda or Rsffaele. Or the event of a couple in the park. Keep in mind that Amanda lived in Perugia for 40 days.
It's not like Amanda gave him change ever day. So why would he recognize her.

And we haven't discussed Toto's substance abuse problems.

You think Curatolo a lousy witness.

Tell me, what is your opinion of witness for the defence, Alessi?