Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

No evidence of Raf and Amanda in the murder room? Together with the shard of glass from the staged burglary room, is the bra clasp with Raf's indisputable DNA thereon - the First Instance court rejected contamination claims - and then there is the shoeprint testimony re exhibit photo 105:

"the technicians reported that it was made by the deposit of haematic substance (i.e., blood); the outer edge of the shoe is distinctly visible; nine lightly arced elements are discernable, with a width of ...[various measurements]...corresponding to the ball of the foot. The technicians hypothesised that the print had been made by the heel and the central part of the sole of a left shoe. Based on the small size of the heel and the reduced dimensions [overall], it was held to be a woman's shoe print [Massei's emphasis), of a size between 36 and 38. In any case, it is a shoe much smaller than that attributed to Rudy Hermann Guede."

So you see, there is solid scientific evidence for all three of the defendants in the murder room.

Vixen - discuss this pic, a pic from a Scientific Police photo.

Who do you prefer to believe, the p!sspoor American media who mindlessly claim, "there is no evidence" or employees of the Italian police forensics team?

Or forensic experts like Conti & Vecchiotti who are Italians.

 

[Dan O.]

CCTV camera 7 looks directly at the cottage gates and would have captured everything that happened on November 1, 2007. The images from it were made to disappear. Does anyone know where it's located?

Camera 7 is the one that captured the "clear image" of Amanda crossing the street at 20:41. I am pretty sure someone knows where it is (or at least where it was that night).

 

[acbytesla]

Re the claim Luca mimed Mez having her throat cut. I would be interested to know how he mimed, "Mez [insert foulmouthed word] bled to death".

How dare the "dingbats" take offence, eh. Amanda can't help being the Ugly American :/.

Dan O. seems obsessed with the pillow stain. The theory amongst posters here is that it belongs to Rudy. However, it could equally belong to other perps at the scene.

IMV it almost certainly belonged to the perp who cut the bra with a sharp knife. Possibly a Roman Catholic with a mortal fear of sex before marriage. We know the other two perps were male and female, from their footprints, whom we can deduce were naked, from the stain on the bath mat and were probably having sex in front of their dying victim.

So much for yout claimed neutrality. TOTAL NONSENSE and absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE to support such a nutty claim. And yes, the stain could be long to other persons at the scene, so why didn't they test it? NOTE** The defense requested that the stain be tested and it was the prosecution that fought it. I wonder why?

 

[carbonjam72]

Google Streetview or legit CCTV?

Camera 7 is the one that captured the "clear image" of Amanda crossing the street at 20:41. I am pretty sure someone knows where it is (or at least where it was that night).

So this is a real CCTV camera, that showed the entrance to the cottage and the parking lot entrance, and was functioning the night of Nov 1, 2007?

Doesn't this look kind of important? Can this camera view really not have been collected?

Is this news to anyone else?

Btw, how come this view is in color with a wide-view, and the other CCTV image is black & White, with a 3x4 frame ratio?

 

[Grinder]

Look at the photographs. You are making appeals to authority. But what do you think this proves?

If anyone has doubt about Massei's abilities they should read Curatolo's interview and compare it with Massei's account. Whereas C said he stayed until just before midnight Massei moved the time earlier to work with the disco buses, only they weren't running that night.

Only one expert said it couldn't be just one attacker yet Massei makes that a judicial truth.

 

[acbytesla]

I doubt it. IMV it is on the contrary; my impression is that people blindly "support" Amanda because she is American, whatever the evidence is.

They see themselves as saving the damsel in distress, when this case is about a very serious and heinous crime and nationality should be irrelevant in bringing the perpetrator/s to justice.

The idea of "let's blame it all on the Black man" as the American "supporters" seem to do, is repugnant to most Europeans. Your claim that Europeans have been on a witchhunt against "the American" is untrue and unfair.

STUPID NONSENSE. Nobody is blaming Rudy because he's black. And it is absurd and disingenuous to suggest it...unless you're really suggesting that Rudy didn't kill Meredith. Is that what you're saying Vixen?

What does Rudy's race have to do with the fact that there isn't one or two ambiguous disputable shoe prints of his in Meredith's blood found in the cottage but a dozen undisputed shoe print? Or there are actual voice recordings of him not even in custody admitting that he was there that night and even saying that Amanda WASN'T THERE.

These arguments disgust me. They are deliberately obfuscating the facts. There is nothing intelligent about them. Certainly nothing worthy of a self-proclaimed Mensa member.

 

[MichaelB]

He's a TJMK carrier pigeon although he hasn't brought up the vibrator yet....That can't be far away.

 

[Dan O.]

So this is a real CCTV camera, that showed the entrance to the cottage and the parking lot entrance, and was functioning the night of Nov 1, 2007?

Doesn't this look kind of important? Can this camera view really not have been collected?

Is this news to anyone else?

Btw, how come this view is in color with a wide-view, and the other CCTV image is black & White, with a 3x4 frame ratio?

Maybe they ran out of color making the cartoon.

BTW, Don,t you love the way they label their streets? I've seen this in many other places, mostley through Google street view.

 

[acbytesla]

So this is a real CCTV camera, that showed the entrance to the cottage and the parking lot entrance, and was functioning the night of Nov 1, 2007?

Doesn't this look kind of important? Can this camera view really not have been collected?

Is this news to anyone else?

Btw, how come this view is in color with a wide-view, and the other CCTV image is black & White, with a 3x4 frame ratio?

I don't buy it CJ. I scoured with Google Streetview the the streets around the cottage for CCTV cameras that may have caught anyone approaching the cottage. This looks very much like a Google Streetview camera to me. Or maybe it is a new camera. I certainly do not believe that there was a camera with this view in 2011, let alone November of 2007.

 

[Kauffer]

No evidence of Raf and Amanda in the murder room? Together with the shard of glass from the staged burglary room, is the bra clasp with Raf's indisputable DNA thereon - the First Instance court rejected contamination claims - and then there is the shoeprint testimony re exhibit photo 105:

"the technicians reported that it was made by the deposit of haematic substance (i.e., blood); the outer edge of the shoe is distinctly visible; nine lightly arced elements are discernable, with a width of ...[various measurements]...corresponding to the ball of the foot. The technicians hypothesised that the print had been made by the heel and the central part of the sole of a left shoe. Based on the small size of the heel and the reduced dimensions [overall], it was held to be a woman's shoe print [Massei's emphasis), of a size between 36 and 38. In any case, it is a shoe much smaller than that attributed to Rudy Hermann Guede."

So you see, there is solid scientific evidence for all three of the defendants in the murder room.

Who do you prefer to believe, the p!sspoor American media who mindlessly claim, "there is no evidence" or employees of the Italian police forensics team?

The expert witness of the above is Dr Lorenzo Rinaldi (Engineer, Principal Technical Director of the State Police, Director of the three sections composed of the Identity Division of the ERT).

Who's next to argue that Rinaldi "is as crooked, bent and corrupt as Stefanoni, Mignini, Maresca, and Italy"? Anyone?

Nobody here, I expect, has got the time to debate with someone who isn't aware of all the relevant evidence about the issues he raises, such as the shoe and foot prints and the question of contamination. This is entry level stuff and you haven't even opened the door. Go away and read Vinci and look at the photographs. Then, consider the testimony with regard to DNA, read C and V's report and consider the analysis of the data dump (perhaps you don't know what this refers to) at www.amandaknoxcase.com.

You need the burglary to be staged, so, voila, you state it is staged and base conclusions on it. If the window in Romanelli's room was broken after the murder, then someone needed to walk out of the murder room into Romanelli's room and back again in order to deposit the shard, resulting in a trail of bloody prints and therefore either evidence of these prints or, minimally, evidence of cleaning of these prints. There is no such evidence.

Go and do some learning.

The nonsense argument you put up about the lamp, yesterday, is embarrassing - it was Amanda's lamp; it was in Kercher's room. Therefore she put it there.

If that's what you are bringing to the case - lack of knowledge, confirmation bias, specious argument, an inability to learn etc, then I'm finished with you.

 

[Grinder]

What difference does it make if the bra was cut or torn?

 

[Dan O.]

So much for yout claimed neutrality. TOTAL NONSENSE and absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE to support such a nutty claim. And yes, the stain could be long to other persons at the scene, so why didn't they test it? NOTE** The defense requested that the stain be tested and it was the prosecution that fought it. I wonder why?

It was actually established very early that Rudy Guede made the stain on the pillowcase and it has even been claimed that it was the forensic match to Rudy that led to his arrest and ultimate conviction. Like, hey stupid perp, don't leave your identity on the pillow under the victim that you rape and murder.

 

[Kauffer]

What difference does it make if the bra was cut or torn?

I think it's supposed to go to restraint

 

[Dan O.]

What difference does it make if the bra was cut or torn?

That is like asking what difference it makes if the victim was stabbed or strangled.

 

[acbytesla]

It was actually established very early that Rudy Guede made the stain on the pillowcase and it has even been claimed that it was the forensic match to Rudy that led to his arrest and ultimate conviction. Like, hey stupid perp, don't leave your identity on the pillow under the victim that you rape and murder.

Are we talking about the putative semen stain Dan or the palm print? I think it sounds if I just made a mistake thinking thar Vixen and you were talking about the semen stain.

 

[Grinder]

That is like asking what difference it makes if the victim was stabbed or strangled.

I don't think so.

Always nice dealing with you. Why don't you just answer the question or ignore it in the first place.

What if it was both?

 

[Grinder]

I think it's supposed to go to restraint

Thanks. I just don't see it as changing anything about who did it. I had a memory that it had to do with moving the body, but I just don't see it pointing one way or the other. Just another tiny detail with a distinction without a difference.

 

[Numbers]

Bill, your gung-ho jingoistic patriotism is commendable. Sadly, if Amanda was not American, you wouldn't go to such extraordinary lengths to deny the obvious.

I am pretty sure that Amanda mentioned the Hippo underpants in the Dianne Sawyer interview, I seem to remember Raf saying somewhere(not sure where) about the wild sex in response, and I saw a picture of them laughing somewhere.
As I said, this is a case of the haters and BS artists turning an innocent situation into a piece of "evidence for the Italian Courts" to justify burning the American witch. I really think that Amanda became the American that the Italians wanted to witchify.

I doubt it. IMV it is on the contrary; my impression is that people blindly "support" Amanda because she is American, whatever the evidence is.

They see themselves as saving the damsel in distress, when this case is about a very serious and heinous crime and nationality should be irrelevant in bringing the perpetrator/s to justice.

The idea of "let's blame it all on the Black man" as the American "supporters" seem to do, is repugnant to most Europeans. Your claim that Europeans have been on a witchhunt against "the American" is untrue and unfair.

The evidence of Vixen's "arguments" as demonstrated in his or her posts is that he or she is attempting to offend and insult - Americans (or those whom he or she assumes to be American simply because they accept that there is no credible evidence of Amanda's or Raffaele's involvement in Meredith's murder and rape).

Rudi (aka Rudy) Guede's DNA profile was detected, apparently reliably, within Meredith, on her clothes, and on her purse. His shoe prints in blood were found in the murder room. He admitted to a friend, in a recorded conversation, being with Meredith in the cottage flat at the relevant time - just before and during and immediately after the murder - before he was in the custody of police. It is certain that he was involved in her rape and murder. He does happen to have dark skin, and to be a native of the Ivory Coast. Those two facts are not relevant to the evidence of the crime.

Vixen drags out these tired old allegations of racism on the part of Americans to in effect excuse the crime of Rudy Guede in raping and murdering Meredith Kercher. Guede is the only person finally convicted of these crimes by the Italian judicial system. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were finally acquitted of rape and murder by the Italian judicial system. They were falsely accused, and Amanda in particular was subjected to unfair treatment, amounting to a witch-hunt, by certain Italian authorities and certain media and certain internet posters.

 

[Antony]

No evidence of Raf and Amanda in the murder room? Together with the shard of glass from the staged burglary room,

This shard of glass shows that someone was in the murder room after being in the room with the broken window. Since the prosecution's contention is that the break-in was allegedly "staged" as the last act before leaving the scene, how does this become evidence against the 2 students?

is the bra clasp with Raf's indisputable DNA thereon - the First Instance court rejected contamination claims -

... and the Hellmann court upheld them, supported by the Conti-Vecchiotti report which remains valid evidence. Why do you continue to appeal to the Massei and Nencini conclusions? All court decisions have been annulled, and those supporting your POV now have the same status as Hellmann.

In any case, have you actually viewed the video of the bra clasp collection by investigators? It's here, on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMaTI0SiuLw

If anything is "staged", then this is it. Judging by their antics, the team clearly know in advance what significance will be attached to this item. What's all this shining a flashlight on it and peering at it? Can they see DNA with their own eyes? Why do they put it back on the floor to photograph it, when it has already been moved from its original location?

Finally, they are handling it, right there, on video with dirty gloves. Contamination event, right there on camera. This is enough to make it completely worthless as evidence.

and then there is the shoeprint testimony re exhibit photo 105:

"the technicians reported that it was made by the deposit of haematic substance (i.e., blood); the outer edge of the shoe is distinctly visible; nine lightly arced elements are discernable, with a width of ...[various measurements]...corresponding to the ball of the foot. The technicians hypothesised that the print had been made by the heel and the central part of the sole of a left shoe. Based on the small size of the heel and the reduced dimensions [overall], it was held to be a woman's shoe print [Massei's emphasis), of a size between 36 and 38. In any case, it is a shoe much smaller than that attributed to Rudy Hermann Guede."

So you see, there is solid scientific evidence for all three of the defendants in the murder room.

Firstly, an unidentified woman's shoeprint is not evidence against Amanda, specifically. Secondly, the Massei conclusions have been annulled. We will see whether the ISC considers the partial shoeprint of Guede's to be indicative of Amanda.

Who do you prefer to believe, the p!sspoor American media who mindlessly claim, "there is no evidence" or employees of the Italian police forensics team?

You only have to look at the bra clasp video referenced above. When the Italian police forensics team use methods that are manifestly improper, then yes, I will believe real forensic experts who point out that there is no genuine evidence.

The expert witness of the above is Dr Lorenzo Rinaldi (Engineer, Principal Technical Director of the State Police, Director of the three sections composed of the Identity Division of the ERT).

So, not impartial then.

Who's next to argue that Rinaldi "is as crooked, bent and corrupt as Stefanoni, Mignini, Maresca, and Italy"? Anyone?

I have seen Rinaldi's blatant pseudo-science, trying to pin the bath-mat print to Raffaele. If that isn't corrupt, then I don't know what is.

 

[Grinder]

This shard of glass shows that someone was in the murder room after being in the room with the broken window. Since the prosecution's contention is that the break-in was allegedly "staged" as the last act before leaving the scene, how does this become evidence against the 2 students?

Well because they staged the break in, duh

... and the Hellmann court upheld them, supported by the Conti-Vecchiotti report which remains valid evidence. Why do you continue to appeal to the Massei and Nencini conclusions? All court decisions have been annulled, and those supporting your POV now have the same status as Hellmann.

What else do they have?

In any case, have you actually viewed the video of the bra clasp collection by investigators? It's here, on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMaTI0SiuLw

If anything is "staged", then this is it. Judging by their antics, the team clearly know in advance what significance will be attached to this item. What's all this shining a flashlight on it and peering at it? Can they see DNA with their own eyes? Why do they put it back on the floor to photograph it, when it has already been moved from its original location?

Finally, they are handling it, right there, on video with dirty gloves. Contamination event, right there on camera. This is enough to make it completely worthless as evidence.

I do not have a cite handy but IIRC by that time the defense was allowed to observe the collection and they were watching live from a van outside the cottage and the people inside were showing them what they had. That is not to forgive how they handled the samples or the dirty gloves. It does make one wonder what happened off camera.

Firstly, an unidentified woman's shoeprint is not evidence against Amanda, specifically. Secondly, the Massei conclusions have been annulled. We will see whether the ISC considers the partial shoeprint of Guede's to be indicative of Amanda.

Did the police experts find a women's shoe that matched the shoe print? Did they identify a missing pair of shoes from Amanda's inventory. Surely one of the british birds would have noticed her shoes.