Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

I really think the onus ought to be on Mach to prove that there's still an avenue for a civil suit, given his track record of inaccuracy*.

Let him show that the verdict was only reasonable doubt and cite the laws that leave that open for further litigation.




*a charitable way of putting it.

While he's at it, can he give a link to Stefanoni's Ph.D.?

 

[Diocletus]

What? Is stupidity a crime in Italy?

Obviously not. But, I'll bet that Massive Suppression of the Lab data is.

 

[charlatan]

Maresca's face was rather sour on TV. OTOH John Kercher wrote some time ago that they've spent a little fortune on the case.
I remember they hired their own experts. I guess those required payment upfront.

IIRC there were more lawyers involved as well. Stephanie had (has?) her own, for example.

 

[analemma]

Sorry about the delay. I was getting the links to his last three pieces and then lost them(though the first one is further up this thread):
http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/o...-acquitted-for-not-having-committed-the-fact/
http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-the-science-says-innocent/
http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/a...ito-acquitted-then-convicted-what-to-believe/
His latest helps to give back some faith to the Italian legal system.

Yes.
I have to admit that I had lost faith in Italian Justice but have to admit that they got the murder decision right in the end.
I found this interesting article that seems to tread the same path, although not as eloquently as the masterpeice by Frank;
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/opportunity-knox-for-italy-bashing/16827]

 

[Katody Matrass]

BTW
It came to me Perugia will have to finally pick up the bill for the 3d movie Mignini commissioned.

 

[JREF2010]

Judge Hellmann spills.... these are some exceptional words...


http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/hellmann-interview-march-30-2015/

Interesting..so, Judge Hellman reports his experience, of grown men, with supposedly stoic and highest level positions, acting like little kids in school, peer pressured and tribal as cavemen/animals. Fickle Judges?
Its sad and pathetic that he was treated so badly by his "professional friends", I wonder if they are now calling him up praising him asking him for dinner due to his verdict being upheld?

The old cold shoulder treatment for Hellman...

reminds me of that song..The Fool on the Hill...
He never listens to them
He knows that they're the fools
They don't like him
The fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning around

 

[anglolawyer]

BTW
It came to me Perugia will have to finally pick up the bill for the 3d movie Mignini commissioned.

Aww, ain't that a shame. Hey! do you think someone will ask how come it cost so much and wasn't even properly admitted either? And also, do you think we can watch it now? Why the heck not? I want to see the bit with the lamp.

 

[LondonJohn]

The second paragraph of Article 530 is the one which refers to insufficient evidence; the acquittal is still "for not having committed the offence" even if this paragraph applies. It would be very helpful to have the dispositivo so that we could know for sure, though. There's some possibility the journalists are relying on Maresca saying the acquittals were for insufficient evidence, and he's not exactly trustworthy (i.e. he also tried to claim Hellman's acquittal might have been for insufficient evidence, when he knew full well it wasn't). Still the Italian media do seem to be saying that the judge cited paragraph 2 - maybe the foreign media just hasn't understood what that means.

But at the same time, the overwhelmingly prevailing opinion was that if this was a "reasonable doubt" case in the eyes of the SC, then the case would without doubt have been sent back down to the appeal court level for (yet) another trial. The fact that this didn't happen, and that the SC totally acquitted, would seem to strongly support a belief that the SC ruled that there was entirely no case to answer. In other words, a "Paragraph 1" acquittal. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the media were reporting Maresca's "creative" interpretation of the ruling, rather than anything explicitly issued by the SC itself.

Incidentally, don't these SC rulings only consist, at this stage, of extremely curt and brief verdicts, with little or no supporting explanation? If so, then surely the SC wouldn't even have gone into this much detail yet over exactly what sort of acquittal it was etc.

 

[LondonJohn]

Oh, erm, wow. This just in from "Yummi":


Sources confirm that the has been a direct intervention from political forces. The ploy was Bruno within the panel, while Marasca tried to resist for several hours.

The interference came from the American Embassy, and the power who enforced it is the Italian Partito Democratico.

The problem was not to embarrass the Democratic candidate at the next presidential elections.

There are two people, one American and one Italian, who worked to the solution, and they are people related to US intelligence. The political interference is similar under some aspects to the Shalabayeva affair, but more extended and complex.


All I will say by way of comment is that those look like incredibly serious accusations of massive corruption. Not only is it alleged here that the most senior level of the Italian judiciary was susceptible to extreme corruption from other parts of the Italian Government, but also that the Italian Government and US Government were acting in concert to corrupt the Italian Supreme Court in order to meet US Government demands.

I certainly hope that "Yummi" can support these incredible accusations with reliable evidence. I guess we might soon find out...........

 

[Antony]

Raffaele has just announced that anybody who refers to him as a murderer or even accused, will be sued. Bongiorno has just announced that Judges at previous trials who were 'wrong' will be investigated. With no haste.

Can't happen soon enough. There needs to be a strong message sent that the courts will side with those who have been found to be innocent.

 

[LondonJohn]

Obviously not. But, I'll bet that Massive Suppression of the Lab data is.

Well Bongiorno appears to have said that judges involved in previous trials will be investigated. That's ambiguous. Firstly, "investigation" could just as easily mean investigation by professional bodies, as opposed to a criminal police investigation. And secondly, does her definition of "judges" extend to figures such as Mignini and Comodi, who technically are members of the judiciary?

I think that there should be investigation of the conduct of the courts in this case, particularly the Massei and Nencini courts. I think there's a strong case to answer that these courts unlawfully disallowed certain evidence, unlawfully failed to mandate proper disclosure to the defence, and made unlawful rulings on certain key items of evidence and testimony. I think they should be held accountable on these issues, and if they are found to have been in error, then the professional judges involved should be severely professionally sanctioned as a result.

But, as you say, there is potential for criminal investigation as well, though not of any of the judges. I think not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni may well have a case to answer over her court testimony (possibility of perjury and obstruction of justice?), and that maybe even Mignini and Comodi have criminal cases to answer as well.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

American and rich?

Amanda Knox, who plans to return to Italy and write a book on the country’s justice system, was acquitted of murder only because she's "American and rich," a former bar owner once falsely accused of murdering British student Meredith Kercher has claimed. Link

He is half correct; she is American. It seems as if Mr. Lumumba has a low opinion of the Italian justice system after all. I just think that it is unlikely that there is this big, bad conspiracy out to spring Knox and Sollecito.

 

[Bill Williams]

Oh, erm, wow. This just in from "Yummi":


Sources confirm that the has been a direct intervention from political forces. The ploy was Bruno within the panel, while Marasca tried to resist for several hours.

The interference came from the American Embassy, and the power who enforced it is the Italian Partito Democratico.

The problem was not to embarrass the Democratic candidate at the next presidential elections.

There are two people, one American and one Italian, who worked to the solution, and they are people related to US intelligence. The political interference is similar under some aspects to the Shalabayeva affair, but more extended and complex.


All I will say by way of comment is that those look like incredibly serious accusations of massive corruption. Not only is it alleged here that the most senior level of the Italian judiciary was susceptible to extreme corruption from other parts of the Italian Government, but also that the Italian Government and US Government were acting in concert to corrupt the Italian Supreme Court in order to meet US Government demands.

I certainly hope that "Yummi" can support these incredible accusations with reliable evidence. I guess we might soon find out...........

Evidence!? We don't need no stinkin' evidence! (Evidence has been something lacking through this whole thing. Why stop now!?)

On another front. Hellmann is madder than a queen bee, and he's naming names. Popcorn time.....

 

[acbytesla]

This only proves he knew something in advance and that there must have been a conspiracy. A conspiracy involving the entire judicial and political elites of Italy. Probably the media elite too. Call me nuts if you like.

I am certainly confident that some of the guilt erstwhile will be saying that.

 

[Dan O.]

Bingo.

Amanda_Knox_guilty_-_all_because_of_a_cartwheel-[Post 5]
Author : lionking
Date : 4th December 2009 09:13 PM

I've followed this case in local papers and over the web. "Innocent victim of unfair, corrupt foreign legal system" just doesn't wash.
​

Has it come clean yet?

 

[Kauffer]

Well Bongiorno appears to have said that judges involved in previous trials will be investigated. That's ambiguous. Firstly, "investigation" could just as easily mean investigation by professional bodies, as opposed to a criminal police investigation. And secondly, does her definition of "judges" extend to figures such as Mignini and Comodi, who technically are members of the judiciary?

I think that there should be investigation of the conduct of the courts in this case, particularly the Massei and Nencini courts. I think there's a strong case to answer that these courts unlawfully disallowed certain evidence, unlawfully failed to mandate proper disclosure to the defence, and made unlawful rulings on certain key items of evidence and testimony. I think they should be held accountable on these issues, and if they are found to have been in error, then the professional judges involved should be severely professionally sanctioned as a result.

But, as you say, there is potential for criminal investigation as well, though not of any of the judges. I think not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni may well have a case to answer over her court testimony (possibility of perjury and obstruction of justice?), and that maybe even Mignini and Comodi have criminal cases to answer as well.

I think this has formed a great deal of the subject matter of this forum.

As for charges, perhaps the statute of limitations will prevent them. But professional bodies are another matter altogether. They will be able to act, if there is sufficient motivation to make them want to.

 

[js202]

"...but at the length truth will out."

Amanda Knox, who plans to return to Italy and write a book on the country’s justice system, was acquitted of murder only because she's "American and rich," a former bar owner once falsely accused of murdering British student Meredith Kercher has claimed. Link

He is half correct; she is American. It seems as if Mr. Lumumba has a low opinion of the Italian justice system after all. I just think that it is unlikely that there is this big, bad conspiracy out to spring Knox and Sollecito.

In the sense that it eventually insinuates itself through all but the darkest channels - and especially to those misguided souls who inhabit those channels - truth itself is conspiratorial. Perhaps this is what is now dawning on the Yummi's of the world; though, predictably, they are inarticulate in their adumbration. One can only hope that, in the end, they will be struck dumb.

In this case, for seven long years, honesty, reason and good sense patiently conspired against a confederacy of lunatics and halfwits. As Shakespeare implied, truth is ineluctable; for a time it can be shaded over, even undermined, but, in the end, it will out.

 

[Kauffer]

Amanda Knox, who plans to return to Italy and write a book on the country’s justice system, was acquitted of murder only because she's "American and rich," a former bar owner once falsely accused of murdering British student Meredith Kercher has claimed. Link

He is half correct; she is American. It seems as if Mr. Lumumba has a low opinion of the Italian justice system after all. I just think that it is unlikely that there is this big, bad conspiracy out to spring Knox and Sollecito.

I agree with you on this, though I do think that cassation will have worked out or had explained to them that they were going to get creamed at the ECHR.

We shall see if they reference the court specifically in their motivations, or, if not, perhaps at least allude to procedural rights violations and equality of arms issues from the lack of discovery.

 

[acbytesla]

Missed the memo, or maybe dinner.

Surely suggesting somebody take further legal action without thinking about how they are going to pay for it (or the actions already taken) is a little presumptuous.

I hope for the Kerchers sake that Maresca was charging them on a contingency basis.

 

[Kauffer]

I hope for the Kerchers sake that Maresca was charging them on a contingency basis.

I thought he was. Is there any evidence there was some other fee agreement in place?