Continuation Part 14: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[toto]

To Machiavelli

I am genuinely curious: could you answer the question I posed earlier:

Could you kindly clarify whether the SC has decreed them INNOCENT or something less so. I got the impression that Sollecito's advocate Bongiorno stressed that the courts had said they had been found innocent in the same way that the distinguished judge Hellman had?

Thank you.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Given the nature of Britney’s fan base it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility.

Serious question: why do you keep calling her Britney? Nobody named Britney is the topic of this thread. Is it a typo, or what?

 

[Bill Williams]

Sorry about the delay. I was getting the links to his last three pieces and then lost them(though the first one is further up this thread):

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/o...-acquitted-for-not-having-committed-the-fact/

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-the-science-says-innocent/

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/a...ito-acquitted-then-convicted-what-to-believe/

His latest helps to give back some faith to the Italian legal system.

Damn, Sfarzo is the Oracle at Delphi.

As Winterbottom has his Sfarzo character, Edoardo, say multiple times in the film, "The Face of an Angel"........

Whenever someone tells Edoardo why they've always thought the American was guilty, Edoardo would retort, "That is because you are stupid and do not read my blog."

 

[Machiavelli]

No. No one has any need to prove anything to you. Why do you need to know this anyway? You've already said that this whole thing is a coup d'etat in Italy, a mafia murder. Do you think they will make Sfarzo the interim president after the coup?

You have already proven something. Only if you claim you have a source, then refuse to show your source, you do nothing but suggest your source was dishonest and non transparent. If you try to hide it, even if it's just a comment, one has to think it must be suspicious.

 

[Bill Williams]

You have already proven something. Only if you claim you have a source, then refuse to show your source, you do nothing but suggest your source was dishonest and non transparent. If you try to hide it, even if it's just a comment, one has to think it must be suspicious.

You are free to think what you wish. I just wanted to see if you would extend this reasoning to the issue of Stefanoni's Ph.D. by providing a link!

No matter. The issues are settled. Imagine how sad your life is.... only me to argue with!

 

[kwill]

I felt the feeling of being the victim, or maybe the witness, of a violent crime. A bit like witnessing a Gaza bombing or a mafia murder.

That's exactly how I felt when I saw the Guilty verdict in the Nencini court. Exactly. Because by that time I knew beyond all doubt that both Amanda and Raffaele were completely blameless -- but here was the court with its incomprehensible ruling, threatening to imprison them both well into middle age. For nothing. Just because it could.

So, yes. It was like witnessing a violent crime. A painful and helpless feeling. I'm sorry to see anybody experience it, but especially the Kercher family. That must be nearly beyond bearing.

However, the only way out is always through. Through, in this instance, means coming to terms with the facts that led the court on Friday to its conclusion. In the last 24 hours I've seen it suggested by shocked guilters that it was the Knox PR machine, the Sollecito fortune & muscle, the US state dept, the racism of Americans, the unhealthy influence of GB's associates, and the as-yet-undeclared Hilary Clinton presidential campaign for the Nov 2016 election, (or some combination thereof) that caused those convictions to be annulled.

It doesn't seem to have given any of them pause . . . what if the simple truth is that Rudy did this alone?

 

[Loss Leader]

------------------------------------X
In the matter of:

THE PEOPLE

- against -

AMANDA KNOX
----------------------------------X

WHEREAS, a final verdict has been delivered upon the case of THE PEOPLE v. AMANDA KNOX; and

WHEREAS, the PEOPLE continue to desire to discuss this case;

NOW, THEREFORE, it is

ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that all such discussion remain civil and polite; and it is further

ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that all such discussion remain on the topic on the case and not, inter alia, about the motivations of other posters, their mental health, the motivations of posters on other message boards, or any other personal aspect of any poster's thoughts or opinions exclusive of nothing; and it is further

ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that a copy of this notice, prominently posted in the thread, shall be sufficient notice for all parties of the Order of this Court.

E N T E R :

LOSS LEADER
Moderator

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader

 

[Samson]

"necessary to educate" ? !


The judgement would be null.

We always seem to return to the function/form debate. The form of judicial truth must always be trumped by the function that is represented by truth as the "eye of god" discerns.

 

[Bill Williams]

------------------------------------X
In the matter of:

THE PEOPLE

- against -

AMANDA KNOX
----------------------------------X

WHEREAS, a final verdict has been delivered upon the case of THE PEOPLE v. AMANDA KNOX; and

WHEREAS, the PEOPLE continue to desire to discuss this case;

NOW, THEREFORE, it is

ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that all such discussion remain civil and polite; and it is further

ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that all such discussion remain on the topic of the case and not, inter alia, about the motivations of other posters, their mental health, the motivations of posters on other message boards, or any other personal aspect of any poster's thoughts or opinions exclusive of nothing; and it is further

ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that a copy of this notice, prominently posted in the thread, shall be sufficient notice for all parties of the Order of this Court.

E N T E R :

LOSS LEADER
Moderator

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader

What can we then talk about? The big stuff is settled.....

BTW - this was genuinely humourous.

 

[Samson]

Look, I am not going to listen to your crap for long. You are quite offensive to my intelligence if you picture a purported "belief" in my own country as if I was a 18yo fresh from a Victorian college who is taught "dulce et decorum est..". I have seen everything and the contrary of it about my country. Actually such an infuriating and terrible event involving feelings of injustice, falsehood, outrage and reek of corruption, is not something new in my own experience of my country.
But I think I also have at least some knowledge about my country, to know what I am talking about.

I suspect early 40s is mildly young on this thread

 

[Dan O.]

That should read:

Amanda Knox +1

 

[anglolawyer]

Seconded on the "nice to see you again KM" part

And yes, I agree with the other part. And I fully agree that the overwhelming likelihood is that Guede did it alone - all the evidence supports this, none of the evidence credibly/reliably points to any other assailants (whether Knox or Sollecito or anyone else), and the narrative for a Guede-only murder is by a huge margin the most obvious and most easily understandable.

But that doesn't alter the fact that the SC, in its non-wisdom, may have got itself into a slight bind when it enshrined the judicial truth that Guede acted with others in its confirmation of Guede's conviction. However, I do believe that it ought to be pretty easy for the SC to sort that matter out (as per my previous posts), and that it will reach the right outcome for the right reasona (ethical and judicial).

I don't think you took it that way but, just in case, I was not referring to your analysis as 'nonsense' but to the Italian judiciary's preoccupation with the phantom extra attackers who ghosted in and out without leaving a trace of themselves.

 

[MDDVS]

Congratulations to Amanda and Raffaele! I was really delighted to hear the latest veredict. I didn't really expect it but I have to say that I was thought that carbonjam72's analysis was correct. Cheers all

 

[Samson]

Congratulations to Amanda and Raffaele! I was really delighted to hear the latest veredict. I didn't really expect it but I have to say that I was thought that carbonjam72's analysis was correct. Cheers all

There is no doubt CJ won the office sweepstake.
If he supplies bank account no, the money should flow in.

 

[lionking]

What can we then talk about? The big stuff is settled.....

Bingo.

 

[anglolawyer]

Looks like Frank Sfarzo understood what was happening in this case far better than you. Since he was predicting the annulments last week. What do you think about your old buddy Frank now Mach?

This only proves he knew something in advance and that there must have been a conspiracy. A conspiracy involving the entire judicial and political elites of Italy. Probably the media elite too. Call me nuts if you like.

 

[LashL]

While you are here, kompo, first it's nice to see you again and second a huge thanks (to you and your collaborators) for the high quality translations of C-V and H-Z. Those were indispensable to our understanding and discussion here.

Indeed. Komponisto, your translations have been invaluable, and I thank you for them. You are one of the unsung heroes who has contributed so much knowledge to the case, quietly and without expectation of fanfare (unlike the guilter/hater faction), but your terrific contributions have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated.

There might be a market for the images of the victims naked corpse. Given the nature of Britney’s fan base it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility.

Actually, based upon your posts, it appears that the only ones who have any interest in Ms. Kercher's naked corpse are hard core guilters and the Kercher family's lawyer, Maresca. You might want to distance yourself from Maresca these days.

1. Nadeu and Halkides are wrong. A civil trial against AK and RS is absolutely possible.

No, the Kercher family members have already had their (misguided) kicks at that can and they have been unsuccessful because neither Ms. Knox nor Mr. Sollecito had anything to do with the sexual assault and murder of Ms. Kercher.

In addition to that, there is a recent law which allows the Kercher also to sue the Italian State

There is no doubt that the "Italian state" got everything wrong in this case from the outset, and that is where the Kercher family members should have been looking in the first place, as the Perugian police and prosecution (and their pitifully unqualified forensic units and employees such as Patrizia Stefanoni et al) screwed the pooch pretty much from day one.

if the Cassazione ruling is inconsistent with others,

That's a big "if".

and pursue truth that way.

The truth is known.

The truth is that Rudy Guede murdered Meredith Kercher and that the Italian authorities screwed the pooch and gave him a reduced sentence when they never should have done so.

I would suggest them to pursue those roads (where there are no evidence restrictions at all).

It appears that your "suggestions" have not been particularly helpful to the Kercher family in the past, and I doubt that they will be particularly helpful to them in the future. The truth is that neither Ms. Knox nor Mr. Sollecito had anything at all to do with the death of Ms. Kercher and it is very sad, indeed, to see misguided guilters continuing to promulgate lies to that effect seven and a half years later.

 

[LashL]

They should do something else. They may sue the State of Italy in an Italian Civil court, because of a Cassazione verdict contrastig with another previous one.

I sincerely doubt that your take on the law is correct (there is no evidence of inconsistent verdicts as yet, after all) but if there were, and if it were true that the Kerchers could bring such a suit, that would be awesome, and I would hope they would do it. Of course, it would be highly unlikely that Maresca would represent them in such an action, though. So, who do you think they might get to represent them if you were correct about the law and if all of the prerequisites were to come to pass and if the Kerchers were to go down that path?

 

[davefoc]

1. Nadeu and Halkides are wrong. A civil trial against AK and RS is absolutely possible.
In addition to that, there is a recent law which allows the Kercher also to sue the Italian State, if the Cassazione ruling is inconsistent with others, and pursue truth that way.

I would suggest them to pursue those roads (where there are no evidence restrictions at all).

This is interesting. Does Maresca know about this?

So in Italy, civil and criminal trials can run concurrently which allows a bunch of otherwise inadmissible evidence to be admitted to the trial if the evidence is seen as admissible in the civil case and the plaintiff's attorneys are allowed to call the defendant names, like she-devil and otherwise hector them throughout the trial?. And if the defendant happens to be found innocent the plaintiff's attorneys can then just sue the defendant despite having already theoretically sued the defendant for the same issue already?

OK, I'm one that has been reluctant to criticize the Italian courts since the system in my country (USA) is not without its problems that have led to lots of wrongful convictions. But if the Kerchers can now bring a civil suit against AK/RS in Italy, the Italian court system has really entered the land of the Three Stooges. As a practical matter it seems very unlikely that the powers that be would let something like this go forward, if for no other reason than they would look like idiots if they did. Perhaps Machiavelli was only talking theoretically and that based on some technical reading of something he thinks that AK/RS can now be sued by the people that lost their suits in the latest Italian SC decision. Maybe so, as a practical matter it seems very unlikely that anybody could go forth with a whacko idea like this. But even if there was the slimmest chance that something like this was possible, the fact that RS/AK are innocent and provably so would discourage most attorneys from taking the case.

 

[anglolawyer]

This is interesting. Does Maresca know about this?

So in Italy, civil and criminal trials can run concurrently which allows a bunch of otherwise inadmissible evidence to be admitted to the trial if the evidence is seen as admissible in the civil case and the plaintiff's attorneys are allowed to call the defendant names, like she-devil and otherwise hector them throughout the trial?. And if the defendant happens to be found innocent the plaintiff's attorneys can then just sue the defendant despite having already theoretically sued the defendant for the same issue already?

OK, I'm one that has been reluctant to criticize the Italian courts since the system in my country (USA) is not without its problems that have led to lots of wrongful convictions. But if the Kerchers can now bring a civil suit against AK/RS in Italy, the Italian court system has really entered the land of the Three Stooges. As a practical matter it seems very unlikely that the powers that be would let something like this go forward, if for no other reason than they would look like idiots if they did. Perhaps Machiavelli was only talking theoretically and that based on some technical reading of something he thinks that AK/RS can now be sued by the people that lost their suits in the latest Italian SC decision. Maybe so, as a practical matter it seems very unlikely that anybody could go forth with a whacko idea like this. But even if there was the slimmest chance that something like this was possible, the fact that RS/AK are innocent and provably so would discourage most attorneys from taking the case.

Agreed. For all but the die-hards, the tide has turned and the scales will fall from the eyes of the millions of interested but uncommitted. The case will focus on the corruption, lies and incompetence that ruined the lives of two innocent people and, with any luck, Carpanne will open its doors to some new inmates. Like I said before, the persecutors always had a tiger by its tail and now they have been shaken off the tiger can turn on them. Time to run!