Merged Senate Report on CIA Torture Program

DDWW said:
I would be happy to authorize the experts to use any measure they want. Keep ignoring that water boarding did provide good intelligence....just you don't like the source of that.
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No one said it couldn't. It's just slower and less efficient and less reliable.

So, you have to choose: Do you want a better shot at getting your loved ones back quickly, or is it more important to you to hurt the person who has the information you need?
 
Upchurch said:
So, you have to choose: Do you want a better shot at getting your loved ones back quickly, or is it more important to you to hurt the person who has the information you need?
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A little waterboarding may be the better shot. I'll let the experts do their job, with no tears of course.
 
Upchurch said:
All evidence available says otherwise
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Where is all this evidence of waterboarding and intelligence gathered?

but you're not a fan of evidence, are you?
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No, I'm a little suspect of what democrats in government put out, especially when they new what was going on the whole time. Also knowing the CIA could never talk about the intelligence they gained, all they are saying is we got good intelligence.

But it looks like they have convinced you, I'm delighted in that.
 
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Upchurch said:
As I recall, it's still illegal to follow an illegal order.
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I don't see it here. I really don't see anyone, including UN Troops, in their pretty Robin eggs blue helmits, storming Langley to arrest CIA agents.

Actually I would love to see them try. But never happen.

BTW: Wife says OK by her for the experts to use any means they want to save her life.
 
logger said:
A little waterboarding may be the better shot. I'll let the experts do their job, with no tears of course.
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You and others have mentioned experts.

If these existed or the CIA had institutional expertise, why did they pay $80M to a totally inexperienced private company?

ETA: and let them assess their own effectiveness, which disagreed with the conclusions of a real expert from the FBI.
 
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logger said:
Where is all this evidence of waterboarding and intelligence gathered?
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Up thread. I'll hunt it down when I'm on a proper computer.

logger said:
No, I'm a little suspect of what democrats in government put out, especially when they new what was going on the whole time. Also knowing the CIA could never talk about the intelligence they gained, all they are saying is we got good intelligence.
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The Senate report is not the only data available on the results of torture. There is also the neuroscience on how torture changes the brain and memory recall.

Are you suspect of scientists, too?
 
DDWW said:
I don't see it here. I really don't see anyone, including UN Troops, in their pretty Robin eggs blue helmits, storming Langley to arrest CIA agents.

Actually I would love to see them try. But never happen.
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I see. So, it's okay for the U.S. to try and convict Japanese as war criminals for Waterboarding during WWII, but it's okay for us to do it because we're the biggest hypocritical bully on the playground? In your view, America should be a dishonorable nation who doesn't honor the promises it makes?

Huh. You don't like the US very much, do you?
 
Upchurch said:
I see. So, it's okay for the U.S. to try and convict Japanese as war criminals for Waterboarding during WWII, but it's okay for us to do it because we're the biggest hypocritical bully on the playground? In your view, America should be a dishonorable nation who doesn't honor the promises it makes?

Huh. You don't like the US very much, do you?
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That's a real jujune statement. Go have a nice day. I'm done with you.
 
DDWW said:
That's a real jujune statement. Go have a nice day. I'm done with you.
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It's honest.

Do you think the US should keep it's promises in the form of treaties and international agreements? Do you think it's right for the US to do the very thing we convicted Japanese for doing in WWII? How important is honor to you?

Because, your previous statement indicates that you don't care about these things, if there is no one who can force the US to live up to it's obligations and promises. Is that correct?


Also, what does "jujune" mean?
 
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Upchurch said:
Finally figured it out: jejune

okay, Google's "did you mean..." figured it out.


Did you mean to be ironic, DDWW?
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No, but this makes a nice posting on other forums.

I think the experts should be allowed to do whatever they need to do to save innocent lives, especially American lives. And because of that you think I hate America.

It's already getting laughter elsewhere. Thanks!
 
DDWW said:
I think the experts should be allowed to do whatever they need to do to save innocent lives, especially American lives. And because of that you think I hate America.
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Well, first, as pointed out, these weren't experts in charge of this.

Second, there is no evidence that torture was needed to save innocent lives, especially American lives. Quite the contrary, actually. The evidence available suggests that it was counter-productive.

Third, you were the one arguing that the US ought to be a hypocrite that ignores it's treaties. You clearly have a low opinion of the US.

DDWW said:
It's already getting laughter elsewhere. Thanks!
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Not very bright or informed people, I gather?
 
Why is it that conservatives are appealing to false-authorities as justification for torture?
 
Upchurch said:
There are basically a bunch of good science links on page 25 for you to ignore, logger.
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a paragraph out of the first one I came too, seems your evidence relies on peoples opinion.

The researchers said their results "augment the accumulating cross-national consensus about effective noncoercive best practices in investigative interviewing." Their hope is that this will "reduce practitioner skepticism about reliance on noncoercive interview strategies with high value detainees." Of course the study is limited in some ways, especially regarding its reliance on people's memories of prior interrogations, and the fact that the detainees' doubtless have a vested interest in highlighting the effectiveness of rapport-based strategies.

Plus, a comment from another reader of the blockbuster report.

Roy Niles • 18 days ago
The threat of having coercive strategies in reserve has a lot to do with the success of "sympathetic" strategies. (I'm an experienced interrogator, now retired.)



Torturing the brain
On the folk psychology and folk neurobiology motivating ‘enhanced
and coercive interrogation techniques’

^
This one seems to be saying, when these terrorists are stressed, they just can't remember.

http://www.bps.org.uk/news/bps-reponse-us-torture-report?hootPostID=937e69c363e4598864b227463396b9ee

^
More opinion



I'll keep reading your evidence, but it is my opinion, the CIA would never release what they gained from these three individuals and there will never be a peer reviewed type study, I'll let you guess why.
 
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