Merged The Disturbences in Ferguson Missouri...

Ammonitida said:
It's a shame that they're "cracking a few eggs" over a man of very poor character who in likelihood was shot in self-defense after he robbed a store and assaulted a cop. It reflects poorly on them, and gives ammunition to those who hate certain ethnic groups.
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This isn't as meaningful as you might think. People have fought "good", or even just "necessary", wars for others of less than sparkling character.
 
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Cylinder said:
Police found the body of a man inside a parked car in Ferguson early Tuesday, after a night of looting and unrest ravaged parts of that city.

A St. Louis County police spokesman would only say that the death is being classified for now as "suspicious" and wouldn't divulge any more details or circumstances.

The body was discovered inside a sedan near Glen Owen Drive and Windward Court at about 9 a.m. Monday. That's just east of the Canfield Apartments and down the street from Canfield Drive, where Michael Brown was fatally shot Aug. 9 by Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson.​
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I'm sure he was a good egg.
I have to wonder if he was someone who had testified before the grand jury... Wouldn't that be something?
Pure unbridled speculation, of course.
 
Cylinder said:
Police found the body of a man inside a parked car in Ferguson early Tuesday, after a night of looting and unrest ravaged parts of that city.

A St. Louis County police spokesman would only say that the death is being classified for now as "suspicious" and wouldn't divulge any more details or circumstances.

The body was discovered inside a sedan near Glen Owen Drive and Windward Court at about 9 a.m. Monday. That's just east of the Canfield Apartments and down the street from Canfield Drive, where Michael Brown was fatally shot Aug. 9 by Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson.​
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Did he die peacefully?
 
I find it vaguely ironic that a police force that seems to have a history of unjustly targeting certain groups has had this kick off for an incident where it probably was pretty* innocent.



*Fairly innocent, because I am not sure how different a situation Office Wilson faced compared to UK cops when faced with large, violent drunks - the vast majority of which are resolved without fatal force.
 
jimbob said:
I find it vaguely ironic that a police force that seems to have a history of unjustly targeting certain groups has had this kick off for an incident where it probably was pretty* innocent.



*Fairly innocent, because I am not sure how different a situation Office Wilson faced compared to UK cops when faced with large, violent drunks - the vast majority of which are resolved without fatal force.
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As are the vast majority of which in the US. Nice skew, however.
 
Gawdzilla said:
As are the vast majority of which in the US. Nice skew, however.
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Indeed, however on the face of it, this doesn't see so different - which would suggest that there is a better solution than shooting.
 
Ammonitida said:
It's a shame that they're "cracking a few eggs" over a man of very poor character who in likelihood was shot in self-defense after he robbed a store and assaulted a cop. It reflects poorly on them, and gives ammunition to those who hate certain ethnic groups.
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It depends on who "they" are.

There are all sorts of stories flying around, and fora like this one have not completely wiped out my skepticism of them. I've heard racist stories and anti-racist stories. I've heard stories that seem to be racist but really aren't, and I've seen stories that seem anti-racist that really aren't. I can't find specific reasons to dismiss any of these stories, but neither do they really seem to hang together, because what do we know? All we have are remote, armchair analyses by people who certainly weren't participating in the riots themselves. (Has even one rioter been even cursorily interviewed?)

So, we have an outcome that didn't sit well with a certain subculture. It involved something extremely important to the subculture. People went to the streets, and they damaged businesses that had nothing to do with the business. Age-old cultural tensions exploded in a mob. Cars were overturned. Riot police were out in force with plexiglas shields and tear gas.

I'm not even talking about Ferguson. I'm talking about the riots in Vancouver a few years back because some Canadians lost a football game. And still people will believe that Canadians are all polite.

I'm pretty sure that there are always some people who are just plain bad, and they'll do bad things. I'm also pretty sure that police and fire departments have limited budgets, and they're spent for the day-to-day and not for emergencies. So they can't be everywhere when there is concentrated violence.

I wasn't talking about Ferguson there, either. I was thinking of Anders Breivik, who in one day came pretty close to overturning the entire history of the US with respect to mass murder in a country with less than 2% of the population.

I'm also pretty sure that people are stupid, and when they get together in large numbers, a mob flashpoint can be achieved, and they act like a bunch of animals.

Oh, wait. That still wasn't Ferguson either. That was a mass trampling at a religious festival in India, which happens often enough, I don't have to say which one.

So who are the "they" here? People who riot? Fine, but then any statement about why "they" rioted becomes meaningless. Ultimately, you just don't know. Even people who had rioted are unable to explain, after they have cooled down, just why they did it in any way that makes any sense.

I don't believe any of these facile if-then stories. Maybe that will make people angry, and they'll riot. I don't know that, either.
 
Ammonitida said:
It's a shame that they're "cracking a few eggs" over a man of very poor character who in likelihood was shot in self-defense after he robbed a store and assaulted a cop. It reflects poorly on them, and gives ammunition to those who hate certain ethnic groups.
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You can't believe it is really about that. I don't care about the character of that man or what happened exactly. He is dead and will stay dead. Whatever happened during that incident is only important because it became a symbol for something bigger. It became a symbol for a society that becomes more and more divided into those that can partake and those that can't. A society where police officers are so afraid to enter certain areas that they need to be kitted out like an occupying force. A society that is rapidly entering a new age of economic apartheid.
If this is not a reason to "break a few eggs", I don't know what is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0ihz0ryFRA
 
It's really too bad that black people can't vote. If they could vote, maybe they could elect some of their leaders to push for minority hiring in the police department. Looting is really the only possible solution.
 
ehcks said:
Peaceful protesting hasn't worked. The media simply ignores it. You can't get ratings from watching people chanting and holding signs.

But buildings on fire? That gets news. International news. How many millions of people now know that Ferguson exists and has problems that wouldn't have known before?

Sometimes you need to crack a few eggs.
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Uh,you know that Joseph Stalin used the old "You can't make a omelette,etc" comment when asked about the purges?

And from a practical point of view if anything, it is going to make people look much more negatively at the demonstrators...
 
The thing about this case is I don't have much respect for a lot of people on both sides.

The DA picked the worse possible time to announce the news...just a hour before Dark??????? Is being stupid a requirement to hold a management position in St Louis County Law Enforcement?
And Brown's father in law's "Burn this B..... Down" is reprehensible,and I wish there was some way to hold him legally responsible for throwing a burnnig match on the gasoline.
 
ehcks said:
Peaceful protesting hasn't worked. The media simply ignores it. You can't get ratings from watching people chanting and holding signs.

But buildings on fire? That gets news. International news. How many millions of people now know that Ferguson exists and has problems that wouldn't have known before?
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Yeah. And it makes it look like the rioters are the problem.

Ever heard of "own worst enemy"? Frustration can lead to extremely self destructive behavior.


ehcks said:
Sometimes you need to crack a few eggs.
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Oh indeed. What are a few lives and livelihoods when the greater good* is at stake?


* to quote Lord Voldemort.
 
dudalb said:
The thing about this case is I don't have much respect for a lot of people on both sides.

The DA picked the worse possible time to announce the news...just a hour before Dark??????? Is being stupid a requirement to hold a management position in St Louis County Law Enforcement?
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Perhaps they wanted to do it after the business day was over and families were safely at home?

(I think they should have tried to hold out for a day of rain or freezing weather.)
 
dudalb said:
The DA picked the worse possible time to announce the news...just a hour before Dark???????
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It was after dark and it's the one thing they handled correctly.

Most families are home by 8:30 PM. The schools were empty. Rush hour was over. There were far fewer people out on the streets, especially knowing that the verdict was going to be announced.

Had the announcement happened at, say, 3:00 PM, there would have been a rather massive protest between me and where I would need to go to get my daughter.

This was the smartest decision they made and they did for people's safety.
 
Ts4EVER said:
You can't believe it is really about that. I don't care about the character of that man or what happened exactly. He is dead and will stay dead. Whatever happened during that incident is only important because it became a symbol for something bigger. It became a symbol for a society that becomes more and more divided into those that can partake and those that can't. A society where police officers are so afraid to enter certain areas that they need to be kitted out like an occupying force. A society that is rapidly entering a new age of economic apartheid.
If this is not a reason to "break a few eggs", I don't know what is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0ihz0ryFRA
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Ah, yes, The Revolution Justifes Anything. We have heard that before, and when people who push that line take over it has not turned out too well.
But I love the 1930's Stalin era visual, though.
 
dudalb said:
The DA picked the worse possible time to announce the news...just a hour before Dark??????? Is being stupid a requirement to hold a management position in St Louis County Law Enforcement?
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I'm not so sure that the destruction and violence was worsened or even occurred because it was dark. IOW, I'm not sure that daylight would have prevented what did happen.

The fires and looting seemed to spontaneously happen away from where the primary police presence was. I could be wrong but the incidents didn't seem to be facilitated by the darkness as much as they did from nobody being there in force to stop it. Then also nobody around to chase down the perpetrators after the crime is committed. Daylight wouldn't have changed that much, IMO.
 
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