Merged The Disturbences in Ferguson Missouri...

[epepke]

Fixing with the systemic racism in the justice system.

I'm going to be skeptical of that, too. Though there is systematic racism in the justice system, I have no doubt. But that Ferguson is in any way representative of the justice system is about as well justified as that it is any way representative of "black people."

The media have been calling Ferguson "a town." Ferguson is too small even to have its own zip code, though at least it is the majority of one of the zip codes that it shares with other areas. Ferguson is barely a change of signs as you drive to the grocery store. It's one of those things that happens everywhere when suburbia grows. It may once have been a town in the proper sense in the horse and buggy days, but not it's just an area.

Because of history, it does have its own police system. It's not a particularly high crime area and is well exceeded by some of the neighboring areas, but overall it's just average. It used to have a lot of white people, but white families left about a decade ago. Of the fitly-some-odd commissioned police officers in the police department, only four are black. So, most of them are probably from the times when it had more white people or actually live in areas that have more white people.

Furthermore, people have been talking about Ferguson and racism for months.

So, fine. There's a lot of racism in the criminal justice system lots of places, but Ferguson has particular problems of its own. For months now, people have talked about Ferguson as if it were Everywhere, USA. It isn't.

Even if you if you had a justice justice system, there would occasionally be places the size of Ferguson that were really messed up. If it's everywhere, then isn't there some place a little closer to home to get worked up about?

Before that it was Orange City, for Zimmerman. Show of hands. How many people have even heard of Orange City? How many people have been there? I have. There are two halfway decent bars, one of which is a biker bar, and one on-premises swing club. I think I saw one used car place there. It's a bit long, but not very wide. You can find anonymous strips alongside the Interstate that are bigger.

 

[Azrael 5]

Ethnic minorities just dont help themselves do they?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-locals-turn-laugh-pick-leftover-beers.html

Disgraceful behavior and my reaction is maybe they should shoot a few rioters, can 't get any worse for the town.

 

[Mumbles]

It's really too bad that black people can't vote. If they could vote, maybe they could elect some of their leaders to push for minority hiring in the police department. Looting is really the only possible solution.

Well really, nobody can vote at the moment, since it's not Election Day. And of course, if people are targeted by police, well it's likely that a disproportionate number can't vote in any case. And yeah, there are people who are trying to organize for the future, but I can only imagine being furious at how the past 100 or so days have played out. A cop shoots a local teen, and before anyone even does anything a whole force swoops in with dogs, rifles, and an armored truck? And hen the police chief flat-out lies to the media, and the media eats it wholesale?

 

[Distracted1]

Tonite here in Philly there are several hundred people participating in a thus far peaceful protest by walking around center city.

I am abashedly grateful for the over the top violence in Ferguson last night, in as much as it may have presented an example of what these protestors do not wish to have happen to their protest.
Perhaps Ferguson burned so we don't have to?

 

[mgidm86]

Ethnic minorities just dont help themselves do they?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-locals-turn-laugh-pick-leftover-beers.html

Disgraceful behavior and my reaction is maybe they should shoot a few rioters, can 't get any worse for the town.

Those photos show a lot more damage than anything else I've seen. Everyone should see them. Very sad. Many businesses burned to the ground, and their owners surveying the damage. Hair salons, an entire row of cars at a dealership. After everything I've already seen I was still shocked.

This does not help garner sympathy, in fact it is giving people even more ammunition to use against them.

As for the Step-dads rant to "burn it down", I just try to imagine what I would do if I'd just learned that the man who killed my son was not being charged (rightly or not), and then someone shoves a camera in my face. On top of all the other anger he must feel, I just can't blame him at all. People would have burned the town anyways. What he said was really bad, but I gotta give him a pass.

My heart ached watching the mother crying and talking to the crowd. All other things aside, living through something like that is unimaginable to me.

 

[mgidm86]

Tonite here in Philly there are several hundred people participating in a thus far peaceful protest by walking around center city.

I am abashedly grateful for the over the top violence in Ferguson last night, in as much as it may have presented an example of what these protestors do not wish to have happen to their protest.
Perhaps Ferguson burned so we don't have to?

You should be.

 

[William Parcher]

an entire row of cars at a dealership.

I don't think that that is what we are seeing, although cars were burned at a dealership somewhere. Those are simply cars parked near a shopping area. Bad luck for the owners.

 

[Wolrab]

Well really, nobody can vote at the moment, since it's not Election Day. And of course, if people are targeted by police, well it's likely that a disproportionate number can't vote in any case. And yeah, there are people who are trying to organize for the future, but I can only imagine being furious at how the past 100 or so days have played out. A cop shoots a local teen, and before anyone even does anything a whole force swoops in with dogs, rifles, and an armored truck? And hen the police chief flat-out lies to the media, and the media eats it wholesale?

There was just an Election Day. The problems with the police department are said to be long standing. Local elections are held every year or two. According to wiki :

In the 2000 census, 44.7% were White and 52.4% were African American. In the 2010 census, 29.3% were White and 67.4% were African American.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson,_Missouri

Before the dogs, rifles, and armored trucks there were riots.

The police chief lied? Not what I remember.

 

[WildCat]

I don't think that that is what we are seeing, although cars were burned at a dealership somewhere. Those are simply cars parked near a shopping area. Bad luck for the owners.

It would be funny if those belonged to social justice warriors from far away.

 

[William Parcher]

It would be funny if those belonged to social justice warriors from far away.

Well, the devoted anarchists don't own cars or have jobs. They get rides, take the bus or train, etc.

 

[WildCat]

Well, the devoted anarchists don't own cars or have jobs. They get rides, take the bus or train, etc.

Or borrow mommy's car. They just have to go upstairs and ask.

 

[trustbutverify]

It is failry obvious. If mainstream America was a little more engaged in the whole issue and remained engaged. Stupid stuff like rioting and burning towns down becomes a far less attractive option

+1

 

[trustbutverify]

Hard to believe that people here are actually defending the rioting in Ferguson.
No wonder the left in the US is in poltical trouble.

I'm not. Of course situations like this are golden opportunities for thugs and bullies to run wild under cover of community outrage. But the outrage is more than understandable given the abusive, hypocritical second class treatment poor blacks are subjected to.

 

[Mike!]

A group of protestors have just destroyed another police car in front of Ferguson City Hall.

ETA: Police have arrived on the scene. From the local news commentator, "Police are on the scene, I think this is the rapid response team they talked about earlier, and they are on the scene pretty quickly. Of course the protestors got here first."

 

[Tony Stark]

Peaceful protesting hasn't worked. The media simply ignores it. You can't get ratings from watching people chanting and holding signs.

But buildings on fire? That gets news. International news. How many millions of people now know that Ferguson exists and has problems that wouldn't have known before?

Sometimes you need to crack a few eggs.

How many of these millions of people has the rioting convinced that Ferguson's problems are due in part to the people that live there?

 

[eirik]

I'm fine if police react to actual looting - but in this case, they often didn't.

Oh no, that's terrible! They didn't fix everything while they were dealing with a riot?

But they do have the time to dress in camo (which makes no sense except as intimidation)

Yes, waste of precious time to dress up in very insensitive uniforms. Why wouldn't they dress in a less riot-cop way I wonder? It's very stigmatising to the rioters. It would be much better and faster if they took a sensibility class before they geared up, so that they could be able to pick a uniform less patriarchial and authoritarian.

and point guns at some unarmed guy on the sidewalk. This is exactly what any responsible gun owner would *not* do.

The police had GUNS!!? Surely this is infringing of some rights or another of the innocent rioters. And don't even suggest picture-cropping, or dare speculate what took place the minutes before the photo was taken. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1223&pictureid=9260 The rioters is not on trial! The police is! (aren't they?)

 

[eirik]

Your expectation is that a unarmed woman should be expected to stop looters? Ah, but of course you lumped that in with "at least alert officers". So it's also her job to act as neighborhood watch and expose her community to more violence?

I would think it's everybodys job to be a citizen. Otherwise society breaks Down - like in Ferguson. Maybe you and your victimology-friends forgot about that.

 

[Belz...]

In this, case, yes.
When did buring and looting become acceptable methods of protest?

Well, here now you conflate "understand" with "accept".

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I would think it's everybodys job to be a citizen. Otherwise society breaks Down - like in Ferguson. Maybe you and your victimology-friends forgot about that.

They're so traumatized they can't even dial 911.

 

[Mumbles]

Oh no, that's terrible! They didn't fix everything while they were dealing with a riot?

What riot?

Yes, waste of precious time to dress up in very insensitive uniforms. Why wouldn't they dress in a less riot-cop way I wonder? It's very stigmatising to the rioters. It would be much better and faster if they took a sensibility class before they geared up, so that they could be able to pick a uniform less patriarchial and authoritarian.

camo isn't riot-gear, it's...camoflauge, which is plainly useless in the middle of a city, and meant merely to intimidate.

And again, what rioters?

(ETA: and how is camo "patriarchial", anyway? Seems like you're just tossing out a word you dislike.)

The police had GUNS!!? Surely this is infringing of some rights or another of the innocent rioters. And don't even suggest picture-cropping, or dare speculate what took place the minutes before the photo was taken. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1223&pictureid=9260 The rioters is not on trial! The police is! (aren't they?)

Well, one of the major rules of gun safety, is that you don't just randomly point it at random people. It's very dangerous, and the gun could discharge and injure or kill that person.

And yet again: What rioters?

(hint - you should try to figure out what we were discussing back then.)