School shooting near Seattle.

[arthwollipot]

When does the compromising end?

How about when children are no longer shot and killed on a monthly basis?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

We know he felt entitled to murder women who wouldn't date him. That is kind of a red flag!

No. We know he felt "entitled" to murder a woman who wouldn't date him (assuming those reports are true).

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

As Corsair 115 pointed out, you'd also have to declare him a misandrist.

No. Because of patriarchy. Or is it privilege? I keep forgetting.

 

[Mike!]

No. We know he felt "entitled" to murder a woman who wouldn't date him (assuming those reports are true).

Looks like he killed two now. Maybe that's the threshold.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Looks like he killed two now. Maybe that's the threshold.

Maybe hated the other one for some other reason.

 

[WildCat]

How about when children are no longer shot and killed on a monthly basis?

Thank you for confirming that the end goal is a complete ban. And after that children will still be shot on a monthly basis.

 

[Mike!]

Maybe hated the other one for some other reason.

Fair point.

 

[Belz...]

The shooter, who as usual turned the gun on himself was a freshman who was upset about a breakup with his girlfriend.

I'm frequently upset about tons of things but I don't go on shooting sprees. And if I wanted to shoot myself I wouldn't take anyone else with me. So I'm thinking this guy had psyche problems.

 

[Meed]

That's what we hear every time one of these gun lovers lets their kids get ahold of a gun and people get killed. But many times it's not their kid who gets killed. Maybe little Johnny picks up the Lugar paperweight on top of the TV set and shoots little Suzy next door. Then what? Has daddy suffered enough knowing his little one is now a killer?

What do you mean has he suffered enough? We were talking about deterrence. The purpose of legal penalties is not to make people "suffer enough".

If your "common sense" made any sense, then the last 50,000 times someone took their parents gun and did something awful with it would have caused a change, and it hasn't.

No, that doesn't follow at all.

I'll add this as well. Not every law is about deterrence.

But recall that this entire exchange between us stemmed from you making a claim that a prison sentence for the parent would be a good idea specifically because it would be a deterrent.

I'm frequently upset about tons of things but I don't go on shooting sprees. And if I wanted to shoot myself I wouldn't take anyone else with me. So I'm thinking this guy had psyche problems.

I'd say that is pretty much tautilogically true that he had psyche problems. Any mental process that would lead someone to do what he did is a problem.

 

[Belz...]

Yeah, I mean a problem that would require medication or observation.

 

[arthwollipot]

Thank you for confirming that the end goal is a complete ban. And after that children will still be shot on a monthly basis.

While I would be all in favour of a complete ban, that's not practical - especially in America, and you know that. And you know that I know that, so stop deliberately misrepresenting my views.

My end goal is merely to bring America more in line with other civilised countries which do not have a complete ban, and do not have children shot and killed on a regular basis.

 

[Trebuchet]

My end goal is merely to bring America more in line with other civilised countries which do not have a complete ban, and do not have children shot and killed on a regular basis.

Or, as in this case, children shooting other children.

 

[Corsair 115]

When the killing is tied directly to a bigoted cultural ideal, then you're dealing with a bigotry-motivated killing.

And what exactly is the "bigoted cultural ideal" in this instance? From what has been reported so far it appears to be a case of a teenaged love triangle where one of the participants was mentally unstable and elected to resolve the triangle with deadly violence.

It'd hardly be the first time in human history a love triangle has ended in bloodshed.

 

[colander]

And what exactly is the "bigoted cultural ideal" in this instance?

"Women do what I want them to do or I'll hurt them."

From what has been reported so far it appears to be a case of a teenaged love triangle where one of the participants was mentally unstable and elected to resolve the triangle with deadly violence.

I am not aware of evidence which suggests that this perpetrator was "mentally unstable".

It'd hardly be the first time in human history a love triangle has ended in bloodshed.

yeah it's almost like disrespect for a woman's right to self-determination is something that's existed in some form or another throughout every culture in human history or something

 

[WildCat]

While I would be all in favour of a complete ban, that's not practical - especially in America, and you know that. And you know that I know that, so stop deliberately misrepresenting my views.

My end goal is merely to bring America more in line with other civilised countries which do not have a complete ban, and do not have children shot and killed on a regular basis.

Do you have any evidence at all that any country has lowered its murder rate through gun control? This study couldn't find any examples: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 

[arthwollipot]

Do you have any evidence at all that any country has lowered its murder rate through gun control? This study couldn't find any examples: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

You need to look outside your echo chamber:

A study co-authored by Simon Chapman found declines in firearm‐related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p=0.04), firearm suicides (p=0.007) and firearm homicides (p=0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased.

Wikipedia link that I got that quote from.

Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.

Peer-reviewed article that the above Wikipedia article cites.

 

[LTC8K6]

Wow, he actually set them up...

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-washington-shooting-20141027-story.html

 

[Travis]

Common sense says the vast majority of parents wouldn't want their kids their kids to shoot up a school and then end their own life. If we can't agree on that then let's just agree to disagree.

We will have to disagree. People who choose to have guns in their house clearly care nothing about the welfare of their children.

Thank you for confirming that the end goal is a complete ban. And after that children will still be shot on a monthly basis.

Really? How many mass shootings in schools has Scotland endured since Dunblane?

How many mass shootings has Australia endured since Port Arthur?

 

[Craig4]

We will have to disagree. People who choose to have guns in their house clearly care nothing about the welfare of their children.



Really? How many mass shootings in schools has Scotland endured since Dunblane?

How many mass shootings has Australia endured since Port Arthur?

That's a bit extreme. People who have guns in their homes when they have kids maybe don't fully grasp the risk they are taking. They certainly buy into the myth that the gun makes them safer. Not fully understanding the ramifications of their actions doesn't translate into parents not caring.

 

[WildCat]

You need to look outside your echo chamber:



Wikipedia link that I got that quote from.



Peer-reviewed article that the above Wikipedia article cites.

Murder rates were falling in the same period all across the world a that time, the leading theory is the phase-out of leaded gasoline. The same thing happened in the USA despite no gun crackdown.

The study you cite merely takes a statistic and arbitrarily assigns a cause. And you focus only on shootings, when there were several mass killings in Australia since then, only arson was the weapon.