Seeing Cryptids: The Problems

[Resume]

We can pin down the region by going back and looking up in the pertinent bigfoot expedition reports what the closest town was. I forgot. But then we can call the DNR region and ask them about it.

They aren't going to lie. Generally 'footers pretend DNR offices do not even exist, because they are kryptonite for paranormal claims. So why they would actually call one and what they would ask is a curiosity.

I would bet NL's "research area" is someone's recreational 120 or 240. Mostly wooded, probably 40 acres in hay and maybe some feed corn; emphasis on the feed as he's stated he ran across a corn cache in the woods, not recognizing it as a deer baiting station. It's likely cutover/burned over second growth and perhaps third growth and is as likely to hide away a 9-ft ape as is Kim Kardashian's oft-photographed cleavage.

If the DNR roll their eyes at NL's bigfoot sightings, he (and his crew) might be the only ones to wonder why.

 

[carlitos]

I would bet NL's "research area" is someone's recreational 120 or 240. Mostly wooded, probably 40 acres in hay and maybe some feed corn; emphasis on the feed as he's stated he ran across a corn cache in the woods, not recognizing it as a deer baiting station. It's likely cutover/burned over second growth and perhaps third growth and is as likely to hide away a 9-ft ape as is Kim Kardashian's oft-photographed cleavage.

If the DNR roll their eyes at NL's bigfoot sightings, he (and his crew) might be the only ones to wonder why.

Another truthy moment in his story:

I spent the next several minutes replacing the batteries

Yesterday, I changed the batteries in my wireless mouse. It took about 10 seconds.

 

[carlitos]

What 'secret evidence', I'm merely relaying a story as best as I could recall it.

On an anonymous internet forum where you post as "Mudcat," you called the storyteller "Steve" - a secret name to protect the identity of this former military, former police, former corrections officer, former hunter, and current conceal carry gun owner. Give us a break.

I think it took place in Indianna, beyond that I don't know. He was a bit vague on a number of specifics. Again, eyewitness testimony is unreliable and I don't put any more faith in his story than some random stranger telling me about how he met the ghost of Elvis Presley in Chinatown despite knowing him for a number of years.

And yet you had to tell us that he was former military, former police, former corrections officer, former hunter, and current conceal carry gun owner. I suppose that you included those details so that we too would give him as much credence as an Elvis-in-Chinatown witness. I do not believe you.

 

[Mudcat]

On an anonymous internet forum where you post as "Mudcat," you called the storyteller "Steve".

Forgive me for not disclosing personal details on the Internet.

And yet you had to tell us that he was former military, former police, former corrections officer, former hunter, and current conceal carry gun owner. I suppose that you included those details so that we too would give him as much credence as an Elvis-in-Chinatown witness.

Those are far more relevant descriptors of Steve than, for example, his age, race, marital status, et cetera. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[comncents]

Mudcat,

I'm a little confused about the point of the story. To summarize, "Steve" thought he saw a bigfoot standing over a deer, but almost immediately realized it was a hunter in a gillie suit. So its not a BF sighting and its not really a misidentification (he immediately realized his first impression was wrong). What point is the story attempting to illustrate?

 

[bruto]

Mudcat,

I'm a little confused about the point of the story. To summarize, "Steve" thought he saw a bigfoot standing over a deer, but almost immediately realized it was a hunter in a gillie suit. So its not a BF sighting and its not really a misidentification (he immediately realized his first impression was wrong). What point is the story attempting to illustrate?

Odd. The misidentification was short in duration, but real for a moment, it seems. I thought the story a rather good one, illustrating how an honest person can mistakenly think he perceives a bigfoot and then use intelligence to correct his perception.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

What 'secret evidence', I'm merely relaying a story as best as I could recall it.

This was an excellent example of exactly what 'footers do, thanks: a whole raft of manipulative tactics.

Minimization: I am "merely"... relating a story? No you aren't. Secret witnesses are not part of a story and all the pump-priming you did with the five qualifiers is not part of the story. Six actually. The story itself has almost nothing to it.

It's just a turn of a phrase, don't hurt yourself thinking about it too deeply.

Minimizing again. ("Just"). Plus the personal insult.

Don't pay any attention to me exaggerating with allegory here. Anyone doing that is an abnormal person inflicting wounds on himself. lol.

Perfect for the defensiveness people demonstrate when they are caught telling tales. Attack with emotional manipulation.

I think it took place in Indianna

Busted: There is no deer season open in August in Indiana. You are telling a tale.

Blaze orange requirements for Indiana:

Hunter Orange garments: vest, coat, jacket, coveralls, hat or cap. (Exception: bow hunters for deer until firearms season starts.)

Since it was August in your tale, he was hunting illegally to begin with, but if he actually was, then blaze orange on a ghille suit would have stood out to the extent it would have been the most noticeable thing about him.

So leaving it out is either deceptive manipulation or an outright lie. Were the blaze orange missing it would form an integral part of the story: "I was fooled because the hunter was (illegally) not wearing blaze orange.

Again, eyewitness testimony is unreliable and I don't put any more faith in his story than some random stranger telling me about how he met the ghost of Elvis Presley in Chinatown despite knowing him for a number of years.

Incredible. You just dismissed the very "evidence" you claim supports your assertions.

Having done double takes in any number of situations, I can safely say that you are wrong.

I'm not a hunter, I know nothing about hunting.

You sure don't. Which is why the second statement negates the first. You are not a hunter and have no idea whatsoever about stalking game, yet tell a lifelong hunter he is wrong about it.

You gave no example of a double-take that is parallel to the tale you told, so the fact is you don't have one.

Didn't I preface this by disclaiming that these were the details as best that I could recall them? Didn't I also say that I didn't know how much of the story actually happened, if it happened at all?

Another tip to lying here:

Liars hedge their statements. We hear them in court testimony, political hearings and TV confessional interviews all the time: qualifying statements that leave an out for the person on the hot seat. “As far as I recall…” “If you really think about it…” “What I remember is…” Hedged statements aren’t an absolute indicator of deception, but an overuse of such qualifying phrases certainly should raise suspicion that a person isn’t being totally up front with what he or she knows.

You did this twice above and elsewhere. You got this in spades.

Mind adjusting your tone a little?

Take a look in the mirror with the insults above. A defense mechanism for being caught in tale-telling is to attack people's "tone".

It's a perfect blame-the-victim attack: The victim can accept the tale despite all the enormous red flags, or he can point them out and be attacked for his "tone".

He is blamed for truthfully pointing out the behavior of the antagonist. How dare you call a rapist... a rapist. Tone it down and call him a gentleman.

Thanks for the evidence. It is the opposite of what you claimed, but it is important to us in understanding this phenomenon.

 

[carlitos]

Forgive me for not disclosing personal details on the Internet.

Again, I don't believe you. You are "Mudcat" and you changed the name of your storyteller from X to "Steve." I think that you are lying.

Those are far more relevant descriptors of Steve than, for example, his age, race, marital status, et cetera. Wouldn't you agree?

No, I would not. You are telling lies. You had to build up the reputation of "Steve" to make your story more believable. Take a look at the nonsense you have peddled here; it is wrong on almost every level.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

It really stands out when someone goes so far as to invent a fake name for someone when there isn't any need for it.

We are blamed for pointing it out, as if a fake name is necessary to protect someone's identity rather than no name at all. People telling the truth will stop at the description of friend or co-worker. Padding the story with a fake name in the prologue is classic deceptive behavior, cited above.

Same with listing the month of August. I posted above how tale-tellers pad the prologue of a story with details because they think this adds realism. A person who knows nothing about hunting regulations will throw out a month to add phony detail without realizing it is not deer hunting season.

Forgive me for not disclosing personal details on the Internet.

Mudcat listed all the personal details he could muster that he thought would dupe us into believing the story. None of them were actually relevant to the story but highly relevant to someone trying to find out who he is.

Delicious hypocrisy.

 

[MikeG]

.....Mind adjusting your tone a little?

ABP?

 

[The Shrike]

It really stands out when someone goes so far as to invent a fake name for someone when there isn't any need for it.

Okay, here is an example in which I read something you wrote and thought, "Nah, he's taking this too far." I could very easily see myself - ostensibly anonymous on this forum - post a story involving an acquaintance and providing that person with a made-up name for my story. This would not be a sign of deception; I'd just do it to provide a redundant layer of anonymity.

Then I read this part:

We are blamed for pointing it out, as if a fake name is necessary to protect someone's identity rather than no name at all. People telling the truth will stop at the description of friend or co-worker.

Yep, you're right. When I think about how I relay such stories the protagonist is almost always "a buddy of mine", "this dude from work", "a student", "my college roommate,", etc. I actually can't think of a scenario in which I would bother to provide a name for someone.

 

[Northern Lights]

I would bet NL's "research area" is someone's recreational 120 or 240. Mostly wooded, probably 40 acres in hay and maybe some feed corn; emphasis on the feed as he's stated he ran across a corn cache in the woods, not recognizing it as a deer baiting station.

The cache of corn was over six feet high, hardly a deer baiting station. And just to be clear, this was found in southern Minnesota, several hundred miles from the other locations I've written about.

 

[Northern Lights]

Another truthy moment in his story:



Yesterday, I changed the batteries in my wireless mouse. It took about 10 seconds.

Here is the thermal we were using.

See the right side with the screw cap covering the batteries, that is why it took me several minutes to get them changed.

 

[Resume]

The cache of corn was over six feet high, hardly a deer baiting station. And just to be clear, this was found in southern Minnesota, several hundred miles from the other locations I've written about.

You really need to get out more.

Corn for deer-baiting or Footie's corn stash? You must be joking. Honest to christ, this is sillier than the GnP incident.

 

[William Parcher]

Was the corn loose or still on the ear? If on the ear, was it shucked?

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Yep, you're right. When I think about how I relay such stories the protagonist is almost always "a buddy of mine", "this dude from work", "a student", "my college roommate,", etc. I actually can't think of a scenario in which I would bother to provide a name for someone.

It adds complexity to a story without the stated benefit. If I were to say "My wife, and let's call her Karen in order to protect her identity..."

Now you have to remember Karen = wife. Who does that? This literature tells us that people do that when they are telling tales. Steve is most likely complete fiction for a number of reasons, this being just one.


For example, he evaded by far the most important visual question: blaze orange. Someone mentioned it right away before me. Because anyone with hunting knowledge is going to ask that.

If someone had told you this tale, and a skeptic pointed out the necessity of wearing blaze orange - what would your natural reaction be? It would be to say "That's a good point, I'll go back and ask him". Personally, I would look up the game regs myself too.

Because you are interested in getting to the truth, not protecting a lie. If there is no Steve, then you can't go back and ask him. So the initial reaction is going to be defensiveness, evasion, and diversion instead.

 

[snoop_doxie]

You really need to get out more.

Corn for deer-baiting or Footie's corn stash? You must be joking. Honest to christ, this is sillier than the GnP incident.

Was the corn loose or still on the ear? If on the ear, was it shucked?

I am not a hunter, and have only seen baiting with some apples one time.
The apples were not in a pile, but scattered all over the ground fairly close
to each other. There were no apple trees in the vicinity.

I guess a six foot tall pile is unlikely or unbelievable? 6 feet does seem improbable.
How does a hunter bait with corn, on the ear? Shucked?

 

[The Shrike]

The cache of corn was over six feet high,

Was it in some kind of a container? A pile of corn over 6' high would probably be, I don't know, 20' across?

Was there a cornfield nearby? If so, how about a seriously p.o.'d farmer? This would certainly be the kind of depredation that would be reported by the farmer to his local Extension agent, local game warden, and probably the Sheriff.

 

[Resume]

I am not a hunter, and have only seen baiting with some apples one time.
The apples were not in a pile, but scattered all over the ground fairly close
to each other. There were no apple trees in the vicinity.

I guess a six foot tall pile is unlikely or unbelievable? 6 feet does seem improbable.
How does a hunter bait with corn, on the ear? Shucked?

I've seen it both ways, but there's no sense in going to a lot of work; if it's illegal as in Minnesota, I'd bet most poachers just use ears rather than bothering with feeders. All you need to do is shuck it and set it out. You use it to habituate the deer to feed at a certain ambush point, so you try and give them enough to come back, but not enough to sate them. The images below should help.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...ts906af118720&p=baiting deer with corn images

The pile of corn NL described could conceivably last awhile, but a larger herd could put the hurt on it. A good way for NL to understand what that corn pile represented would be to ask a DNR officer. I'd bet big money on the reply.

The very last possibility would be a bigfoot corn crib.

ETA: I'd hold out a slim possibility of someone fixing to make shine.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Bizarre. Hard to make sense of the statement. The cache is supposedly in the woods.

This pile here has a diameter about six times the height:

That would make it more than 36 feet across. Using the volume of a cone formula:

= pi (rsquared)(H/3) = 2035 cubic feet. At $3.50 per bushel and 2.5 cubic feet per bushel that is almost $3,000.00 in corn and weighs about 57,000 lbs.

I have a big dump truck. 14 yards. That's over five dump truck loads. Getting that into the woods is going to take an army, since it can't be delivered into the woods by truck.