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Where in that opinion does it say "Brown would never resort to violence"? One person says he'd never been in a fight. That's not the same thing.

And not one person in the thread said it either, then?

Anyone in the thread arguing that position?

I'm pretty sure it was just mentioned that other people saw Brown as not the most aggressive kid on the block.
 
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From post 25 above, "...As a freshman, he was in Junior ROTC. His sophomore year he played football. Link"

Okay, so he knew how to charge and tackle. Head down and bust the guy right off his feet.

There goes the "he was bowing in prayer for forgiveness when Wilson executed him" theory.
According to a witness he was bending over clutching his arm, presumably because he had been shot in the arm. He was some distance away with a gun trained on him. I think he had given up by then.
 
No, but it provides context. It also puts to lie any character witnesses coming out of the woodwork saying, "Mike would never resort to physical aggression." He just did, ten minutes earlier.

If we're discussing Brown's alleged assault on Wilson, you're right. It provides plenty of context. And it certainly makes me more likely to believe he did in fact assault Wilson.

However, the question at hand is whether or not Wilson was justified in shooting Brown to death. Any violent acts Brown may have committed including during the robbery and assaulting Wilson just a few minutes prior don't provide context to what happened when Brown broke away from Wilson, fled, and was some 20 feet away.
 
Not exactly, but that's a cop out given how many people have exaggerated that store video into things like: Brown was a violent felon destined for a life of crime.

Well, he was a violent felon - that cannot be disputed.

Was he destined for a life of crime? Maybe, maybe not. We certainly hear plenty of whining about the "school to prison pipeline" and the "criminalization of black men" etc. - and why do we hear this whining? Well, one of the central premises is that once you're in the system a life of crime becomes one of the most predictable outcomes. Prisoners learn to be better criminals while in prison, having a record limits their options and makes them feel permanently excluded from law-abiding society so they keep increasingly engaging in more and worse crimes, etc.

So, there are plenty of people who would argue that a life of crime is something very easy to lock into, and hard to get out of.

I have no idea how many other crimes Brown was committing on a regular basis which either are on a sealed juvenile record, or he simply didn't get caught/identified for. My guess would be a lot, since in the one tiny window of his life we got a peek into... he had illegal drugs in his system, committed a robbery, two assaults, and possibly even an attempted murder.

But, perhaps that little segment of his life was a bad sampling. Perhaps getting busted for strong-arm robbery and assault on a police officer would've been the wake up call he needed, had he lived, and he would've straightened his life out. I'm personally very skeptical about that, but it's possible.

None of this has anything to do with saying "him doing the strong-arm robbery justifies Wilson shooting him" - which is something I've yet to see anyone say, but have seen a lot of people pretend others are saying.

How do you square this with the claims that continue saying Brown was threateningly coming toward Wilson?

There are plenty of ways to come threateningly toward someone, lunge at them, etc. without pointing the top of your head at them and bull-charging them. I would suspect the only time someone does that is if they're joking around and want to deliberately do it in a silly way for laughs.

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But Skeptic Tank says no one is making the charging with his head down claim. :rolleyes:

So, if someone has experience with football then that means they charge people like a bull? Or, if someone points out that he had a football background that means they're asserting he would've charged like a bull?

My understanding is that it's more common in football to charge leading with your arm/shoulder rather than your head. Plow into people with your side, not your head. Does that involve lowering your head somewhat to make yourself more compact and brace for the impact you seek to cause? Sure. But not nearly enough to get your head into the position of those bullet holes, especially the second one.

Him falling, for whatever reason, into those final bullets' trajectory remains our best explanation for those wound locations.
 
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Just want to make sure SG has the chance to respond to this...

So I have a seen a few nods of agreement with my scenario, but no one has pointed out why it is unworkable....
It's been pointed out, you seem to have ignored it.

Can you let me know where (what post number) and how, please ?

I have re-read and I don't see anything that makes the scenario where all 10 of those shots are at brown, while brown is facing wilson, unworkable.
 
So not one person in the thread then?

I wondered why you said "quote the post that said this," so I thought it would be fun to quote The Post.

Let's review, and please read for comprehension, dear:

[The robbery video] puts to lie any character witnesses coming out of the woodwork saying, "Mike would never resort to physical aggression." He just did, ten minutes earlier.

It seems you've confused "character witnesses" for "posters on this forum." It's probably not a mistake you'll find all that embarrassing since it's one of many...
 
If we're discussing Brown's alleged assault on Wilson, you're right. It provides plenty of context. And it certainly makes me more likely to believe he did in fact assault Wilson.

However, the question at hand is whether or not Wilson was justified in shooting Brown to death. Any violent acts Brown may have committed including during the robbery and assaulting Wilson just a few minutes prior don't provide context to what happened when Brown broke away from Wilson, fled, and was some 20 feet away.

It does if Brown came back toward Wilson, as a possible witness says here: https://plus.google.com/+DanMcDermott/posts/Eu44gWTyC8Y an account that more or less meshes with "Josie's" version.
 
I wonder why he (The county prosecutor) felt that he had to qualify that statement....

I'm going to be surprised if Brown didn't have a juvenile criminal record. I don't think people all of a sudden walk into a convenience store and casually commit strong arm robbery.

His buddy Johnson could provide some insight in to that. But I doubt he will. Will the Wilson investigation be able to force open the records on Brown's past? Politically, it would be difficult if they don't. People that think Wilson is getting screwed will go nuts over the idea that Brown could have a significant juvenile criminal record that is being hidden.
 
It does if Brown came back toward Wilson, as a possible witness says here: https://plus.google.com/+DanMcDermott/posts/Eu44gWTyC8Y an account that more or less meshes with "Josie's" version.

Well, first of all, that dubious witness account doesn't describe Brown "charging" or "rushing" Wilson. So I still fail to see why so many people are excited about it.

Secondly, I also don't see how Brown shoving and threatening a store clerk automacially means he is likely to charge headfirst at a police officer (whom only moment ago he was fleeing) directly into a hail of bullets.

That's the kind of slippery slope logic that would lead one to the conclusion that pretty much anyone who has engaged in any act of violence would be likely to do the same.
 
No, but it provides context. It also puts to lie any character witnesses coming out of the woodwork saying, "Mike would never resort to physical aggression." He just did, ten minutes earlier.

Would Wilson ever resort to physical aggression? Why is everybody talking about Brown? Wilson is the perpetrator; he pulled the trigger. Why isn't anybody asking questions about him or digging through his past?
 
I wonder why he (The county prosecutor) felt that he had to qualify that statement....

To be fair, that choice of words cuts both ways.

Brown has a juvenile record and McCulloch is avoiding the appearance of misstating that fact; or

Brown doesn't have a juvenile record and McCulloch crafted the statement to avoid the appearance of commenting on the contents of a closed record.

McCulloch is restricted to public comment only on Brown's adult record so one should expect that caveat either way, IMO.
 
We can really only speculate on what happened, but based on what's been released so far: the video, the autopsy report that contradicts witness accounts that Brown was shot in the back, the presence of at least one drug in Brown's system, and Officer Wilson's clean record...

I would give good odds that this was a justified shooting. I will be surprised if there's even a trial.
 
Would Wilson ever resort to physical aggression? Why is everybody talking about Brown? Wilson is the perpetrator; he pulled the trigger. Why isn't anybody asking questions about him or digging through his past?

People have talked about that. But there's not much to talk about because of the limited publicly available facts with regard to that. The police announced he had a clean record, but the police had policies whereby complaints against an officer were routinely not stored with officer's record according to an article on HuffingtonPost.

So those are the only known facts about that right now. Discuss away, but please feel free to make wild ass guesses to help flesh out your point like most of us are doing in lieu of actual information.

ETA: I realized that I wasn't exactly balanced in what I said about my suspicion that Brown had a juvenile criminal record. I also suspect that Wilson had had issues in the past, but we may never know about them because of the department's policy of not being comprehensive with regard to record keeping of complaints against police officers.

I think there was an article where a Ferguson citizen mentioned that Wilson had been particularly rude to her for no apparent reason. There is also the fact that Wilson received a commendation from the department a few months before he shot Brown.
 
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Well, first of all, that dubious witness account doesn't describe Brown "charging" or "rushing" Wilson. So I still fail to see why so many people are excited about it.

It sure is on its own, but it's independently confirmed by "Josie's" account, and she correctly anticipated the ballistics report before it was publicly released: no bullets to the back; the lethal blow came to the forehead.

Secondly, I also don't see how Brown shoving and threatening a store clerk automacially means he is likely to charge headfirst at a police officer (whom only moment ago he was fleeing) directly into a hail of bullets.

Nobody is saying it automatically means he's likely to charge an armed police officer. Instead it means he's more likely to attack a police officer than Joe Citizen.
 
People have talked about that. But there's not much to talk about because of the limited publicly available facts with regard to that. The police announced he had a clean record, but the police had policies whereby complaints against an officer were routinely not stored with officer's record according to an article on HuffingtonPost.

So those are the only known facts about that right now. Discuss away, but please feel free to make wild ass guesses to help flesh out your point like most of us are doing in lieu of actual information.

"What Chief Jackson didn't tell anyone at any of the press conferences was that, until he took over in 2010, use of force complaints were not kept in an officer's personnel file."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/17/1322435/-So-Darren-Wilson-has-a-clean-record

So we can say that for four years at least, Wilson had a clean record.
 
It sure is on its own, but it's independently confirmed by "Josie's" account, and she correctly anticipated the ballistics report before it was publicly released: no bullets to the back; the lethal blow came to the forehead.



Nobody is saying it automatically means he's likely to charge an armed police officer. Instead it means he's more likely to attack a police officer than Joe Citizen.

Right. Someone who robs a convenience store minutes before being shot by police is more likely to have done something to cause the shooting than someone who didn't just rob a store.
 
To be fair, that choice of words cuts both ways.

Brown has a juvenile record and McCulloch is avoiding the appearance of misstating that fact; or

Brown doesn't have a juvenile record and McCulloch crafted the statement to avoid the appearance of commenting on the contents of a closed record.

McCulloch is restricted to public comment only on Brown's adult record so one should expect that caveat either way, IMO.

Makes sense. I won't read anything into it, then.
 
"What Chief Jackson didn't tell anyone at any of the press conferences was that, until he took over in 2010, use of force complaints were not kept in an officer's personnel file."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/17/1322435/-So-Darren-Wilson-has-a-clean-record

So we can say that for four years at least, Wilson had a clean record.

Wilson has not been on the force since 2010 - only 2011 according to an article. Prior to FPD, he was on the Jennings PD, which was disbanded (stories refer to them all being fired) due to issues. It was all covered in the prior thread.
 
We can really only speculate on what happened, but based on what's been released so far: the video, the autopsy report that contradicts witness accounts that Brown was shot in the back, the presence of at least one drug in Brown's system, and Officer Wilson's clean record...

I would give good odds that this was a justified shooting. I will be surprised if there's even a trial.

Many of the facts you're basing this on are incorrect.

1) We don't know if Wilson had a clean record or not. His department went through some sketchy shenanigans to hide reports of malfeasance from the public.
2) Brown had weed in his system. THC stays there for quite some time. Plus, you'd have to go back four presidents to find one who didn't have THC in his system at some time. THC is not the drug Reefer Madness claimed it was.
3) Witnesses claimed he was shot from behind and then acted as if he were shot. The police have confirmed that Wilson shot at him from behind, so this is not a mistake on the part of witnesses. Furthermore, one of the wounds to the arm could have come from behind, which matches what the witnesses saw.
4) The newly found audio of the shooting calls Wilson's version of events into question. Wilson claims Brown stopped, turned, taunted him by saying "you're not gonna shoot me!", and then began to charge him which makes zero sense considering that Brown had already been shot twice by this time.

I'm not saying it could not have been a justified killing, but so far IMO the evidence is not going Wilson's way.
 
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